Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

  1. #1

    Default better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Hello everyone,
    I am trying to develop a good practice schedule for myself as a beginning player, and would love your help on the same. This is where I stand currently :

    I started playing mandolin 2 months ago. I had some experience with violin so basic left hand technique came relatively easy to me. Since then, I have learned to play a few tunes from mandolesson website and also the 3 simple chords using 2 fingers and some sliding chords (these I do not play as convincingly)

    I got to know about this forum recently and have been lurking much lately. I have since then started with FFcP technique and able to follow the first finger tabledit sheet at 50% speed. I feel some strength in my pinky already!
    I also read PickLoser’s guide to double stops and it was enlightening. Though I am not musically astute to get a feel of when to use which double stops, atleast I now know which one are possible at any given instance. I have not been able to integrate doublestops in my practise. I am also learning some simple tunes from the tabledit tune sections.

    Music theory wise I understand how major chords are formed in any major scale using 1,3 and 5th degree, but other than that I am aspiring to learn.

    Today I turn 25 years old, and looking forward, being able to play mandolin, and develop deeper understanding of music in general seems important to me. It is a hobby (something I enjoy doing and do regularly for the joy). I currently spend anything b/w 25-50 minutes practicing. Some FFcP exercise, then try to learn some tunes etc.

    I aim to:
    1.Develop better technique
    2.Get better with music understanding
    3.Become a better mandolinist and musician in general.

    I invite you to suggest and enlighten me so as to streamline my practice sessions into a more productive(and joyful) experience.

    PS - I understand that at times hardcore practice, and pain are part of the experience which brings joy ultimately, and am willing to indulge

  2. #2
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,244

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    If you go to my web site

    https://www.petemartin.info/videos.html

    And scroll down to the bottom, you will find a series of 4 videos called "Practice Tips". Many ideas of how to organize your practice time you may find useful.
    Keep in mind there are many paths to travel, no one way is "right". Just have fun on the journey, it is very rewarding.
    -----------
    Pete Martin
    www.PeteMartin.info
    Jazz and Bluegrass instruction books, videos, articles, transcriptions, improvisation, ergonomics, free recordings, private lessons

    www.WoodAndStringsBand.com
    Jazz trio

    www.AppleValleyWranglers.net
    Western Swing music

  3. #3

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Martin View Post
    If you go to my web site

    https://www.petemartin.info/videos.html

    And scroll down to the bottom, you will find a series of 4 videos called "Practice Tips". Many ideas of how to organize your practice time you may find useful.
    Keep in mind there are many paths to travel, no one way is "right". Just have fun on the journey, it is very rewarding.
    Thanks for the reply pete!
    I was a little anxious that my first post was going without reply for few days. I feel a little welcome in this community already now!

    I did watch the videos you mentioned, couple of months ago. There you talk about long term medium term and short term targets. and about small chunks of practice ranging from 5-10 minutes. I do keep the mandolin on a chair near my desk and pick it up whenever I can. In terms of deciding targets, I am not sure what to commit to and what to leave for later.
    There is :

    1. left hand technique - for which I do the initial FFcP exercises.
    2. Right hand technique - which I am not touching much right now
    3. Chords - which I do not feel I have the knowledge or guidance to inculcate into my practice currently
    4. double stop - I read 80% of the pickloser's guide and hoping to inculcate that into my practice routine
    5. learning tunes - this can be tough at times -either tunes are too easy or too difficult mostly - causing me to lose interest many times.

    Apart from this, I am interested in understanding what is happening musically, rather than mindlessly going for mechanical practice - this I am trying to do by watching various videos on what scale functions are, how are major chords formed etc. - nothing synchronized but jumping my way as I encounter things that are unknown.

    For example in FFcP practise sheet there are Major 7th chord practise which I have no idea about, and will probably watch a video on that...


    Anyways, as you might have guessed, my learning is coming in bits and pieces and I am making more decisions than trusting a particular process and going with it. It also tends to create doubts in what I am doing sometimes.

    I guess I can define a short term target - to be able to play FFcP initial exercises in all four positions at moderate tempo - thus strengthening my left hand and making the musical connections b/w notes that is described on the jazz mando website.

    Another one can be tremolo for right hand or double stops/music theory - I am not sure at this moment.

    Any suggestions or observations are more than welcome.

  4. #4
    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Co. Mayo, Ireland
    Posts
    3,569

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Great that you're addressing left hand technique, I would recommend also working on the right hand technique as well now - these kind of mechanics are best addressed from the get go, so that you don't ingrain less than optimal techniques that then take a lot longer to eliminate. I wouldn't be working on tremelo for the right hand until you've got good right hand technique in place - one facilitates the other: poor right hand technique will make good tremolo playing difficult to achieve.
    2018 Girouard Concert oval A
    2015 JP "Whitechapel" tenor banjo
    2018 Frank Tate tenor guitar
    1969 Martin 00-18




    my Youtube channel

  5. #5

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by Jill McAuley View Post
    Great that you're addressing left hand technique, I would recommend also working on the right hand technique as well now - these kind of mechanics are best addressed from the get go, so that you don't ingrain less than optimal techniques that then take a lot longer to eliminate. I wouldn't be working on tremelo for the right hand until you've got good right hand technique in place - one facilitates the other: poor right hand technique will make good tremolo playing difficult to achieve.

    Thanks for your response!
    As far as right hand goes:
    I have learned to hold the pick correctly, and the ergonomics are decent. I am able to smoothly change strings playing moderate pieces like parts of river flows in you, and yesterday by the beatles as given on tabledit resources in this website.

    I thought tremolo was the next step as far as the right hand goes, what would you suggest instead, given my level as I described above?

    Also what can i do to simultaneously improve my music skills. something that is doable at my level ?

    Thanks again!

  6. #6
    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Co. Mayo, Ireland
    Posts
    3,569

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhiyao View Post
    Thanks for your response!
    As far as right hand goes:
    I have learned to hold the pick correctly, and the ergonomics are decent. I am able to smoothly change strings playing moderate pieces like parts of river flows in you, and yesterday by the beatles as given on tabledit resources in this website.

    I thought tremolo was the next step as far as the right hand goes, what would you suggest instead, given my level as I described above?

    Also what can i do to simultaneously improve my music skills. something that is doable at my level ?

    Thanks again!
    Ah, in your response to Pete you stated that you weren't touching much on right hand technique at the moment, so I read it as saying that you hadn't spent time on it yet - from your reply to me it sounds like you have focused on it, so if you're confident that it's on the right track (having an instructor critique it for you for example) then if it's all good you should be fine to work on tremolo - my comment would be relevant if you hadn't started working on right hand technique at all yet.

    You mentioned finding some tunes too "simple" - one way you can make that work in your favour is to use those simple tunes as vehicles to practice things like double stops, chords or tremelo, taking it incrementally by identifying one place in a tune where you could try to use a double stop, or somewhere you could substitute a chord for single notes.
    2018 Girouard Concert oval A
    2015 JP "Whitechapel" tenor banjo
    2018 Frank Tate tenor guitar
    1969 Martin 00-18




    my Youtube channel

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jill McAuley For This Useful Post:


  8. #7
    Registered User DougC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,875
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    This is from another topic, currently on the Cafe. I think it may be useful here.

    In these 'modern' times, folk musicians now are, or should be aware of aspects of music that can help them to understand what they are doing.

    Here is a list that I have on my music stand.


    • get better at memorizing tunes
    • get better at reading music
    • listen and study great music
    • know about the musicians
    • know about history
    • record yourself and critique
    • practice time - more discipline about your schedule
    • go to concerts
    • scales and arpeggios
    • improvise Know how tunes are made
    • talk with peers and strengthen your determination to improve
    Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DougC For This Useful Post:


  10. #8

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by Jill McAuley View Post
    You mentioned finding some tunes too "simple" - one way you can make that work in your favour is to use those simple tunes as vehicles to practice things like double stops, chords or tremelo, taking it incrementally by identifying one place in a tune where you could try to use a double stop, or somewhere you could substitute a chord for single notes.
    this seems like great advice. this is something that I can do right away, nudges me to think about what is happening musically to be able to add chord/ double stop, and yet does not overwhelm me! thanks

  11. The following members say thank you to Bhiyao for this post:


  12. #9

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    This is from another topic, currently on the Cafe. I think it may be useful here.

    In these 'modern' times, folk musicians now are, or should be aware of aspects of music that can help them to understand what they are doing.

    Here is a list that I have on my music stand.


    • get better at memorizing tunes
    • get better at reading music
    • listen and study great music
    • know about the musicians
    • know about history
    • record yourself and critique
    • practice time - more discipline about your schedule
    • go to concerts
    • scales and arpeggios
    • improvise Know how tunes are made
    • talk with peers and strengthen your determination to improve
    thanks for this. most of these bullet points are long term targets which can help me set short term tangible targets. scales and arpeggios are something I am on already, and this forum is allowing me to talk to peers

    recording myself also seems like a good idea to help the critique part. will try to integrate that in time!

  13. The following members say thank you to Bhiyao for this post:

    DougC 

  14. #10
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Here is some heretical advice. In crafting your practice routine, it is valuable to keep in mind that "perfect" is the enemy of "good". A perfect routine that discourages constant application, either though its rigors or through its monotony, will not serve you as well as a "good enough" routine, which is interesting and fun enough to keep you at it.

    The difference between the perfect practice routine and a good enough routine, though significant, is nothing compared to the difference between the good enough routine, and not practicing regularly.

    Just a heretical thought from someone who became enlightened through experiences forced upon him by being unenlightened.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JeffD For This Useful Post:

    Bhiyaojshane 

  16. #11

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Here is some heretical advice. In crafting your practice routine, it is valuable to keep in mind that "perfect" is the enemy of "good". A perfect routine that discourages constant application, either though its rigors or through its monotony, will not serve you as well as a "good enough" routine, which is interesting and fun enough to keep you at it.

    The difference between the perfect practice routine and a good enough routine, though significant, is nothing compared to the difference between the good enough routine, and not practicing regularly.

    Just a heretical thought from someone who became enlightened through experiences forced upon him by being unenlightened.
    Thanks JeffD! I see where you are coming from exactly. I have in the past suffered much from perfectionism and ambition, which ultimately takes the joy out of things and kept me constantly anxious/frustrated. that is not the way to live, and I have learnt is partly by experience and partly by reflection

    It is not possible to the see complete path to the destination(whatever that is!), rather we only see a few steps further, if we are lucky! sometimes its a complete leap of faith in the darkness. In fact things where one can see the complete path clearly, are almost never exciting enough to spend time on(maybe this is my exploratory personality speaking).

    So yes, I will keep in mind to not let perfect come in the way of good. Currently I keep my mandolin on a chair next to the chair I sit on when at home in from of the computer. That way I often pick up the mandolin while watching some obscure chess stream etc, and start playing FFcP exercises just to warm up. This get me a few minutes of practice everyday - the chain remains unbroken!

    I have also been meditating for a few years now, and have learned to see my projections on the future as impediments to my present state of being. I try to limit that. Though I am not enlightened, as you say you are, I am enjoying my mandolin journey at present, balancing joy and ambition, to be able to move ahead.

    PS - this got a little meta. more like a post on one of those meditation forums!
    PPS - I have been reading a lot of old articles and you are a really valuable contributor in many of them, JeffD , thanks again!

  17. The following members say thank you to Bhiyao for this post:


  18. #12
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    SD
    Posts
    3,658

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    For me on any instrument I am working on I have to stop on a good note. I have to nail something and then stop. If it takes five minutes then five if it takes 30 then 30 but I always stop on a positive. I don't care if I have to end really fast or playing really slow but that's what I do to stay motivated. I started on drums. I nailed the simple 4/4 hat snare hat kick etc. Today I swapped it around until I got it, mixed up, open hand, closed hand, overhand, old school, anything that gets me to end on a positive! I might do this once a day or twice a day or five or six times in a day. I also have a goal for that little session, small push my ability but attainable. I might have to take a three or four-minute break several times before I get an accomplishment but hey do you what you got to do and it keeps me positive about practice. Then I can noodle until my heart's content. And don't mistake noodling for practice, noodling isn't practicing, it is fun with no particular goal, practice is focus and structure to get you to the desired goal. If you can't or haven't gotten to a point where you can successfully pick your goal find a teacher or mentor to help you along.
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

  19. #13
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    SD
    Posts
    3,658

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Here is some heretical advice. In crafting your practice routine, it is valuable to keep in mind that "perfect" is the enemy of "good". A perfect routine that discourages constant application, either though its rigors or through its monotony, will not serve you as well as a "good enough" routine, which is interesting and fun enough to keep you at it.

    The difference between the perfect practice routine and a good enough routine, though significant, is nothing compared to the difference between the good enough routine, and not practicing regularly.

    Just a heretical thought from someone who became enlightened through experiences forced upon him by being unenlightened.
    I suffered from this initially, which is why I started working as I mentioned in the previous post just above. So much better for me now. I was not able to pick reasonable practice goals they were big and almost impossible to gain in a practice session then I went the other way and noodled around all the time but although my noodling got better my playing didn't.
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

  20. #14

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bertotti View Post
    I suffered from this initially, which is why I started working as I mentioned in the previous post just above. So much better for me now. I was not able to pick reasonable practice goals they were big and almost impossible to gain in a practice session then I went the other way and noodled around all the time but although my noodling got better my playing didn't.
    thanks for both of your replies. yes, setting SMART goals is important, and often it is helpful to have a mentor or a teacher. I am relying on the internet, including this community for now, and my current defined goals seems to be:
    1. play regularly
    2. play the introductary FFcP exercises at moderate tempo in all 4 starting positions.

    I am doing, exploring other things as well, but will be happy I I get this done sometime in april.
    Last edited by Bhiyao; Mar-22-2021 at 10:19pm. Reason: added a useful resource

  21. #15
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Posts
    2,775

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Good luck with managing your learning as a business goal with SMART. If it worked for this endeavor, players would all be playing Rawhide at 300 bpm.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow Manouche
    Arrow Jazzbo
    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Gibson F5L
    Gibson A-4
    Ratliff CountryBoy A

  22. #16

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    JeffD's advice is awfully good.

    Another heretical observation:

    I have met LOTS of players (mostly mandolin and guitar 'cause that's what I do) that can do whiz-bang practice routines-- they can arpeggio up the ying/yang, and play and name all the modes in all positions-- but they cant play a single tune woth a darn. Because of this, I now spend all my "technical" practice time listening to, and reproduciing, what I like from the players I admire. For example, if you learn to play "Jerusalem Ridge", you will learn a lot of trasferable technical skills.... AND you will have learned to play a damn fine tune, too. I find it's more fun to learn this way, I progress faster, I actully learn tunes/songs that I can play alone or with others, and the question of "what should I practice" is moot..... you practice what you need to do to be able to play the song....

    Anyway... my 2 cents..

  23. The following members say thank you to jshane for this post:

    Bhiyao 

  24. #17

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    Good luck with managing your learning as a business goal with SMART. If it worked for this endeavor, players would all be playing Rawhide at 300 bpm.
    perhaps you have something valuable that I cannot grasp at this time. the A in the SMART stands for attainable, and hence if someone sets a goal and fails to get there by following any short term plan, they will simply learn something about their ability and set better targets for the future. so I disagree. if all players use SMART goals, they will be more aware of where they stand, and most of them will not be playing Rawhide at 300 bpm, but rather than being frustrated about it (which a lot of ambitious players might feel), they will be more humble about where they are and more compassionate with themselves in terms of setting targets.

    again, having fun is important, and so is being oriented correctly.. at least this is how I feel at the moment, but I might learn better in time!

  25. #18

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhiyao View Post
    perhaps you have something valuable that I cannot grasp at this time. the A in the SMART stands for attainable, and hence if someone sets a goal and fails to get there by following any short term plan, they will simply learn something about their ability and set better targets for the future. so I disagree. if all players use SMART goals, they will be more aware of where they stand, and most of them will not be playing Rawhide at 300 bpm, but rather than being frustrated about it (which a lot of ambitious players might feel), they will be more humble about where they are and more compassionate with themselves in terms of setting targets.

    again, having fun is important, and so is being oriented correctly.. at least this is how I feel at the moment, but I might learn better in time!
    This is what my father does, he picked up the violin at the age of 46 and plays indian pop music from memory/listening, and that is all he does wrt the practice. his arguements are exactly the same as you are, and yes, he know 100s of songs today while I know perhaps 5 and practice scales and arpeggios mostly, learning to play by ear, and exploring the fretboard to learn songs is a fun and good advice, thanks !

  26. #19
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Here is the main thing. Regular practice is magical. All of a sudden what you couldn't do you can do. All of a sudden what was hard is easy and what was impossible is merely hard. All of a sudden, you are looking down at your fingers while you play, and if you had a spare couple fingers you would pinch yourself to see if it is a dream.

    regular practice is the secret sauce. It really is. And don't worry that the secret is out, because the number that know the secret is much greater than the number that use the secret.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  27. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JeffD For This Useful Post:


  28. #20

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Here is the main thing. Regular practice is magical. All of a sudden what you couldn't do you can do. All of a sudden what was hard is easy and what was impossible is merely hard. All of a sudden, you are looking down at your fingers while you play, and if you had a spare couple fingers you would pinch yourself to see if it is a dream.

    regular practice is the secret sauce. It really is. And don't worry that the secret is out, because the number that know the secret is much greater than the number that use the secret.
    This is architectonic. I completely understand (at least intellectually), and am trying to make sure that I pick up the instrument everyday and do some practice deliberately, with purpose. sometimes I just play around only for the joy of my soul - strumming chords and playing notes as they come to me... but doing it regularly is the main thing I get it.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pp.jpg 
Views:	139 
Size:	11.7 KB 
ID:	193036

  29. #21
    That guy playing mandolin
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Provo, Utah
    Posts
    59

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    I'm also fairly new to mandolin, having picked it up about a year ago. The contradictions in learning an instrument are fascinating to me-how I can play a fiddle tune or chord progression that sounds so beautiful I can't help but linger on it, and then listen to the masters play and feel like I'll never be good enough.
    I have two thoughts to share on practice routines:
    First, variety is key. Practice a wide range of things, not necessarily all at once, but regularly. I switch between fiddle tunes (which at least for me stretch the limits of my physical abilities as I slowly increase speed and add complexity), song melodies that I know (which help me to train my musical memory and melodic muscles), and chord progressions of various types (which help with chords and switching, though for some reason I have a terrible time remembering chord progressions without having them written out in front of me). I also try to work on specific songs more in-depth (I've also learned River flows in You, along with the cello suite prelude, and they feel like a culmination of my various skills, targets that start out unattainable and thus give a sense of progress).
    The second things I'd like to mention is to practice playing for others, and in settings other than your normal practice room. That's been hard with covid, but I've gone to play in parks on nice days, and give background music to some small gatherings I've been invited to. This has helped me feel more comfortable playing and helped me overcome my stage fright, and also get used to making mistakes in comparatively high-stakes situations and learning to move on. It also really helps to polish my skills when they have to be put to the test in situations where I might be distracted and am worried about what others are thinking. It sucks at first, especially since I don't have much experience performing for crowds, but it is a key part of being a musician.
    I hope you find some of this helpful. If you have any tips for remembering chord progressions, let me know!

  30. The following members say thank you to Reywas for this post:


  31. #22
    Gibson F5L Gibson A5L
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,526
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Well ..... Firstly warm up .... slowly ... use scales arpeggios and chords in the keys they work together ie. G/C/D/Em etc. While you are doing that work your right hand cross picking exercises. Take about fifteen minutes to do this. Then work on a single tune /song/break for the next fifteen minutes. Take it slowly and speed up gradually over several days or weeks. Choose a second tune/song/break (in a different key) and do the same thing. Lastly play for fifteen minutes or a bit more for the joy , what is often called noodling, of playing. If you normally play / practice more than an hour continue with the fifteen minute blocks. Pay attention to your hands when you are tired stop both your brain and hands will thank you in future years. Play On! R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

  32. #23

    Default Re: better practice sessions for a motivated begineer

    Quote Originally Posted by UsuallyPickin View Post
    Well ..... Firstly warm up .... slowly ... use scales arpeggios and chords in the keys they work together ie. G/C/D/Em etc. While you are doing that work your right hand cross picking exercises. Take about fifteen minutes to do this. Then work on a single tune /song/break for the next fifteen minutes. Take it slowly and speed up gradually over several days or weeks. Choose a second tune/song/break (in a different key) and do the same thing. Lastly play for fifteen minutes or a bit more for the joy , what is often called noodling, of playing. If you normally play / practice more than an hour continue with the fifteen minute blocks. Pay attention to your hands when you are tired stop both your brain and hands will thank you in future years. Play On! R/
    thanks! an hour of practice is the higher side of what I devote regularly, chunking practice in 15 minutes, with a warm up is surely great advice! thanks :D

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •