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Thread: Another bridge question.

  1. #1

    Default Another bridge question.

    I’ve got one post going and wanted to keep that one alone.
    I understand that optimum bridge contact is important. And I understand lowering and raising the bridge to set action. But if you got the action just right, why wouldn’t you put small blocks of wood and take the question of the posts out of the equation?
    Other string instruments have a solid bridge. Why not the mandolin?
    My mountain dulcimer has a floating bridge. Slots for nut and bridge were cut by my builder.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Another bridge question.

    Well, the bowl-back ancestors all had non-adjustable bridges, as does my flat-top, and of course lots of other things with strings. As I’ve hinted, the screw-adjustable is acoustically dubious, but it makes instrument production easier. No handwork or time expended for setup. A quartet of meshed wedges (each pair having two parallel faces) as you suggest, should be not only adjustable, but more stable against tilting. I was thinking of your dilemma couple of days ago, when I noticed a nasty buzz from my ancestral Stradolin- it was the thumbwheel somehow getting unloaded and rattling.
    Your other issue: a flat saddle and a radius fretboard does seem to call for a replacement. I actually like the (small) sag in the Stradolin’s (original) bridge as I imagine it makes a better ergonomic match to the arc of my wrist. Concave fretboard anyone?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Another bridge question.

    I raise and lower my bridge fairly often with the seasonal changes of weather. I like to keep an optimum action and when it is humid it goes up, dry goes down. I chase it cause I like a low action. With a solid bridge this is only possible with different bridges or shims under the bridge, either way a pain.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  5. #4

    Default Re: Another bridge question.

    If you want a solid but adjustable bridge this might be your answer -

    http://bridgerproducts.com/brekke_bridges

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  7. #5
    Confused... or?
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    Default Re: Another bridge question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    ... Other string instruments have a solid bridge. Why not the mandolin?
    Maybe a more direct question would be: "Why do arch-top fretted instruments often have adjustable bridges, while flat-top instruments often have solid bridges?" (In other words, let's include those arch-top jazz guitars with "most" mandolins.)

    My (non-expert) assumption: Because carved & arched plates have far more end-grain exposed to atmospheric conditions than do flat-top instruments, thus swelling and shrinking more quickly in response to changes in humidity and temperature.

    Some might want to discuss the "non-contiguous" nature of the fibers in a carved top, but that's a bit beyond my pay grade.

    YMMV!
    - Ed

    "Then one day we weren't as young as before
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  9. #6
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Another bridge question.

    I'd say flat tops tend to have strong bracing keeping them in shape and arch tops two (mostly) parallel subtle braces so weather will show more in the geometry of the instrument.
    I've never considered adjustable bridge with thumbwheels a problem acoustic or mechanical. You cannot judge it by failure of some poor instruments. Well made adjustable bridge will not compromise sound in any way.
    The whole theory of sound "traveling" through the metal posts and wheels and thus inhibiting tone or some other weird notions is completely wrong, but so many folks repeat the stupid idea that it became folclore among musicians...
    Adrian

  10. #7

    Default Re: Another bridge question.

    I did a little web-looking. There’s quite a bit on MC as well. Looks like Gibson ca. 1921 introduced the feature, just when they were also bringing over some ideas from violin tech, but it wasn’t Mr. Loar. On the violin, the bridge has to be very tall for bow access, and also acts as an important element, so the strings have to be attached at the tail, and the fingerboard angled up to suit. On a ‘classic’ flat guitar with soft strings, the intent is to attach the strings where the bridge is, so any significant height would put excessive torque on the top, so the strings need to be parallel to, and close to the wood. For more string tension, as with steel strings, the mechanics point toward attachment at the tail, although if the structure is strong enough, the bridge could be bolted down without ripping the top apart. Early mando-ish and similar Miid-Eastern things that are not bowed can also keep the strings close to the top and bridge loose by attaching at the tail. The bowl-back, having to attach at the tail either has to angle the neck or, as most do, put a bend behind the bridge to allow strong attachment at the tail with some downforce at the bridge.
    So once you arch the top, you’ve got to angle the fingerboard up to clear the bulge (or else elevate it, which is even worse), and the same problem is at the tail, so you’re stuck with making a bridge that is somewhat different.
    So far, then, it’s structural mechanics, and pretty obvious - no weird stuff needed. It should be noted that about the same time Gibson added F-holes and carved top, and some fashionble but decorative ideas, they were also laying in some Virzis and making up stuff just for marketing. They were not alone.

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    Default Re: Another bridge question.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    The whole theory of sound "traveling" through the metal posts and wheels and thus inhibiting tone or some other weird notions is completely wrong, but so many folks repeat the stupid idea that it became folclore among musicians...
    So, are you suggesting vibration doesn't travel through a bridge to the instrument top Adrian? I'm just asking 'cos I don't know. I do know that good fitting bridges made of one piece of the right material have sounded better on all acoustic instruments I've owned except mandolin (cos I've never tried switching a mandolin bridge to a one piece). I've also never seen a violin bridge with a gap or break, or metal in it (pickup bridges etc) that sounded as good as the usual wooden one piece design.

  12. #9
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    Default Re: Another bridge question.

    Arch top guitars have essentially the same bridge design as a mandolin, they are not one piece and sound good. If you think of a flat top guitar the saddle is seperate, not adjustable, but it is two piece. A one piece bridge on an old Gibson mandolin is not one piece, but has moveable saddles on the earlier ones.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  14. #10
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    Default Re: Another bridge question.

    As an upright bass player I have an adjustable bridge and find it useful. Many players who prefer solid bridges have a winter bridge and a summer bridge. This could be an option for mandolin as well. For me I am not a good enough player, nor is my mandolin (or bass for that matter) good enough that it would likely make much difference.

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  16. #11
    That guy playing mandolin
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    Default Re: Another bridge question.

    Most violinists say that having less mass in the bridge improves/increases the sound because less energy is wasted wiggling the bridge in order to exert the same effect on the top. It seems to me that while our system is probably less aesthetically pleasing than a violin bridge's holes, having less mass in the bridge because of the metal poles might increase volume.
    In addition, having read quite a few threads of geezers young and old arguing about armrests, tone guards, pick guards, pick thickness, string material, etc have made me believe that "better" is incredibly subjective in music and most changes just result in "different." Most arch topped mandolins are trying to achieve the sound of old instruments that are honestly probably just considered better because they've been around so long we've gotten used to their sound.
    If you use a solid bridge, your mandolin will probably sound different than everyone else's. If you are trying to reach the ideal sound of wider (Bluegrass) mandolin culture, you'll have to follow what they do. But if you want to differentiate yourself, or are chasing the particular variety of "different" that sounds better to you, then this might be a step in the right direction.

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  18. #12
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another bridge question.

    Mass may also be a way to enhance lower frequencies & reduce tinny brightness..
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

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