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Thread: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

  1. #26

    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    In my case it took some listening to the old time pickers and singers to get used to this sound. The first time I heard a record of Tommy Jarrell fiddling (many years ago), I thought his intonation was awful and wondered why anybody would listen to music like that. I was used to fiddlers like Kenny Baker with his smooth bowing and flawless intonation. But over the years the old time southern music has really grown on me and these notes no longer are jarring.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    I respect his talent, but, yeah, agree with Shawn. I didn’t make it past the first verse. Which, of course, is not a fair trial, but I’m on vacation and don’t want to put forth that effort right now, lol.

    I’ve heard a lot of old time fiddlers and fret less banjo pickers do this sort of thing, and, sometimes it serves to build tension. But, sometimes it’s unlistenable for me. To those that love and do it well, more power to ya. But, I’m grown, and I don’t have to!!

  4. #28
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    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    hi michael
    and thanks for your curiosity in this music. i’ve been experimenting with pitch systems other than 12-tone equal temperament since i was in music school in the 90s, some of it more successfully than others. “the last of biff” is inspired by traditional fiddle music of the upland south but utilizes notes that are microtonally in-between the 12 that we can normally access in each octave on the mandolin. they are not chosen at random and are in fact scientifically (ie acoustically) more resonant that their tempered counterparts, however they are unfamiliar to most listeners so that they are culturally “out of tune”. indeed there is something more complex going on, as you noted, more info on which can be found here:
    https://www.flynncohen.net/microtonal-fiddle-tunes
    i should also note that i wrote all of these tunes on the fiddle, but i am a plucked-string player by nature (and profession) so i jumped at the chance to try this stuff out on instruments that i already know well. also to be noted: “fretlets” are temporary so that no antique gibson mandolin was harmed in the making of the video in question.
    rock on!
    flynn

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  6. #29
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by sgarrity View Post
    But this isn’t listenable for me.
    Same here. That's when an Irish musician falls through a time warp in mid-session and wakes up in a Marrakesh market.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  7. #30
    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    OMs, mandolas etc. with quarter tone and partial (only under 2 strings) frets are not that unusual anymore in the Nordic countries. Ale Möller (Frifot, Nordan, duos/trios with Aly Bain, Bruce Molsky) is probably the leader when it comes to what he calls "Swedish mandola". You can see the neck of his instrument in the 2nd video







    BTW: If you think Ralph Stanley sang in equal temperament, you are out of your mind.

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  9. #31
    Mandolin Player trodgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    I like it! To me it's like discovering a new color. My western music ear says those notes shouldn't be there, but they pop up like tasty treats. Very exciting!
    “Like winds and sunsets, wild things were taken for granted until progress began to do away with them. Now we face the question whether a still higher ‘standard of living’ is worth its cost in things natural, wild and free.” -- Aldo Leopold

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  11. #32
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    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    here’s a video i made in explanation of the microtonal mandolin, perhaps this will lend some clarity to the discussion:

    https://youtu.be/_LdUSsPS6lE

    -flynn
    www.flynncohen.net

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  13. #33

    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    Sounds Mongolian + Southeast Asia with a Turkish edge. Cool

  14. #34
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by mandocrucian View Post
    OMs, mandolas etc. with quarter tone and partial (only under 2 strings) frets are not that unusual anymore in the Nordic countries. Ale Möller (Frifot, Nordan, duos/trios with Aly Bain, Bruce Molsky) is probably the leader when it comes to what he calls "Swedish mandola". You can see the neck of his instrument in the 2nd video
    Niles, thanks for three wonderful videos. Am I hearing inccorectly or are the first two videos you posted of the same tune with different titles?
    Jim

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    Registered User Isaac Revard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    Super interesting pursuit. There is a place, scene, environment, an emotion, a moment for this kind of music, I can’t place it and perhaps that’s the beauty in it.

    It’s ok to not be in love with it I suppose, after all my wife has never been a fan of bluegrass...however I think we can all appreciate its complexity and likely appeal to some. Kinda gets me thinking about playing in other hertz, like 432 etc.

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  17. #36
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    I'm open to this? Why not? You should hear me sing! There is just something about a good mangle!

    My wife's cousin is a retired professor of music. He plays the flute and has no interest in 13 note chromatic scales. His music is weird!

    We were talking one day and he told me he plays a guitar (I had one with me). I said, here you go, John! He took the guitar and retuned it. No joke, it was the weirdest tuning I'd ever heard! None of the string intervals were even close. I'm like, "Why?" John's saying, he likes all the notes. I'm like, "What!?" He says it's like a weed wacker. There's all the notes!

    I'm easy on Flynn! Go for it!

    f-d
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  19. #37

    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    Flynn,

    Thank you for this explanation. I’m curious if you’ve considered a fretless mandolin. To my ear the notes in the fiddle tunes are pretty close to the notes we’re used to, and part of the enjoyment is the tension when the note that is played almost lands on (and gets closer to) a note that is familiar. Thanks

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  21. #38

    Default Re: Looking for some insight into microtonal mandolin

    No mandolin, but here's music by percussionist Geoff Smith on hammered dulcimer to loosen up those fixed intervals of consonance:

    https://geoffsmith.hearnow.com/haxan...__zz2NHmp_ER-w

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