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Thread: Three string chords - good and bad?

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    Default Three string chords - good and bad?

    So, I'm about two months into 'I play fiddle so let's do mandolin'. Areas like improving sound, string crossing, cleaner picking, slowly building up speed and tremelo, are under way. I know where all the notes are from fiddle. Now to chording and rhythms, let's have a look at the method books.

    Hmm - this book starts with a four note six fret G chord and 'your fingers will get used to it', another couple start with a bunch of four string chords, but Mandolin For Dummies shows a few basic four string chords then goes big on moveable three string chords. Sounds good, if three notes was enough for Django...

    My priority on mandolin is to get into playing with others and backing them up as quickly as possible, and it looks like this might help with that.

    So, how do you all find three strings chording - any disadvantages in concentrating on that rather than 4 string chords?

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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Personally, I find three note chords preferable to four-noters in most situations. Easier to play, quicker to move and adapt, cleaner sound and definition (IMO) - the list goes on. I hate to say never, so I'll just say I very seldom use old-school BG chop chords. Of course, I don't play a lot of old-school BG any more (mostly jazz and OT these days), but even when I do, I find that 3 or even 2 note (double-stop) chords provide a cleaner sound. For back-up, a single mandolin will never have the sonic range or depth of a guitar, so I prefer to go for a sound that aims for pulse and movement instead of "size" (for lack of a better word). Two or three note chords can be easily "walked" around a chord progression, basically comping like a four-to-the-bar jazz guitar line. And in larger ensembles, the mandolin can be used as a sort of melodic snare drum, keeping the beat but also adding counter melody lines.

    So, to sum up, I am a fan of smaller chords.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    I use 3 string chords probably more than I should.
    IMHO they can be very effective and sometimes the tonal order on the mandolin or dola just doesn't stack to my liking, so better to omit one tone than overdo.
    this of course can be either the GDA or the DAE, but more often than not I am making 3 note chords on GDA.

    5-2-3 C chord becomes the 7-4-5 D chord and the 9-6-7 E and 10-7-8 F with all the associated minor and 7th variations are examples.

    the 2-4-3 D7 , the 4-3-5 G7, 2-5-4 A7, are also very commonly used and all moveable up and down the neck.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Using the bottom 2 or 3 strings to do most of the work (G & D courses with the A course) and using the top two strings (sometimes the A course used this way and very often the E course) to simply add color now and then is for me a good way of comping on mandolin. Even when I finger chords for using all four strings I'm often playing the bottom two or three mostly in my strum patterns, using the high strings for effect on certain upbeats, things like that add color IMO.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    think about each playing situation, how many instruments, are there more than one of the same instrument (no need duplicating notes), bass or guitar covering the root, rootless chords, use 7ths, color with inversions, play just percussive at times as drum/tempo rhythms...think of the guitarist in a jazz setting as in don't play bass notes that are being played by the bass, don't clash with the piano playing same inversions, extensions, colors, even with six string guitar playing a lot of two and three note shell voicings keeps you in the pocket, think chords/notes that add complimenting color and or simply rhythm tempo playing...just thoughts here, I'm just learning mandolin and have never played with anyone so it's just what I'd be thinking if I ever did.

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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    you'll want to have all of them going on

    3 string chords are never "bad"

    remember genre often dictates which voicing you'll use...those long 4 string "chop" chords are for bluegrass, so if that's the sort of jam you're in, have it ready to go

    for swing rhythm I'm often playing a 3 string voicing on the lower strings, and adding color notes or tensions on The E string

    for chord melody playing the three string voicings are often used also, but more often on the higher 3 strings

    since you're a fiddle player one thing that might help with stretchy stuff like the chop chord is to angle your fingers toward the nut, or closer to parallel to the fret(s). I know this may be counter intuititive to left hand grip on the fiddle, but it helps on the mando in pressuring an entire chord's worth of strings on the flatter board

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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    Using the bottom 2 or 3 strings to do most of the work (G & D courses with the A course) and using the top two strings (sometimes the A course used this way and very often the E course) to simply add color now and then is for me a good way of comping on mandolin. Even when I finger chords for using all four strings I'm often playing the bottom two or three mostly in my strum patterns, using the high strings for effect on certain upbeats, things like that add color IMO.
    Caleb Klauder says he does this a lot. Rarely plays chop chords or even chop rhythm for backup. Of course, I don't think many folks would say that Caleb is a bluegrasser - more like "old timey".
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    From the first page of the "Student Center" version of Major & Minor Triads:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Major & Minor Triads Ss PDF.png 
Views:	235 
Size:	492.3 KB 
ID:	193266

    found here: https://mandoscales.com/students/#SsPDF-1
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Except for bluegrass chopping, I’m using 3 fingers. I drop the root, and sometimes the fifth, when making chords with extensions. Three finger chord shapes are movable from the top 3 strings to the bottom 3 strings too. 6 inversions!
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    Except for bluegrass chopping, I’m using 3 fingers. I drop the root, and sometimes the fifth, when making chords with extensions. Three finger chord shapes are movable from the top 3 strings to the bottom 3 strings too. 6 inversions!
    Not a BG purist, myself. I chop with 3 finger chords on the lower strings, G-A. I’ve been in group lessons taught by pros who support the percussive strength of chopping the low notes.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by A-board View Post
    Not being a BG purist.......I’ve been in group lessons taught by pros who support the percussive strength of chopping the low notes.
    I'm sure you have.

    And many finger all 4 notes, and only strike 2-3 strings. It's subtle.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxr View Post
    So, how do you all find three strings chording - any disadvantages in concentrating on that rather than 4 string chords?
    No disadvantage at all. Three string phrasing offers a lot of flexibility. Four string chording is great but not a requirement by any stretch. Once I figured out how to move three string chording around (lower range and higher range) that changed everything for me. The advantage of playing violin in my opinion, and I don't play it myself, may be that you have a lot of knowledge in voicing to accompany other instruments and vocals using even two string chords of root and 3rd, 3rd and 5th, or 5th and root octave depending on what you're looking for. Experiment with chords and how you want to play them.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Please review the following:
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...kU1A4YTfOzFWvR
    Aaron Weinstein has proven, I think very effectively, that three finger chords can be used quite well to get a great sound.
    He is also available for personal lessons via Zoom, and other video formats. He is currently helping me to work on 12 bar blues rhythm using three finger chords. It has very greatly improved my ability and confidence. Looking forward to laying with others once it is much safer to do so.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Hanson View Post
    Thanls Eric, I subscribed to Aaron's channel

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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    There are no bad chords. Just chords used in or at the wrong place, manner or time. I have found when backing a three tone chord or even a double stop implying a chord on the G/D/and A strings help carry the rhythm just fine. Carry on. R/
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Use them all the time. Once you get into extended chords you can play any chord you want if you ignore the root. Let the bass guy play that note.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    As the late Bucky Pizzarelli told a friend of mine who was watching him warm up (and wondering why he was only playing triads up and down the neck, but no "jazz chords"), "Just play the three notes you need, kid".

    But, hmm, maxr asked for "...and bad", so I thought of one: If you are playing "the three notes you need, kid" that's good. If you're not thinking about which three notes you need, and just hitting three-out-of-four strings of a four-note chord — that's good if percussiveness is your goal, but bad if one of the three notes you need (for harmonic reasons) is the one note in the four-note chord that doesn't get played.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Ritchhart View Post
    Use them all the time. Once you get into extended chords you can play any chord you want if you ignore the root. Let the bass guy play that note.
    I keep seeing references to playing the root (or not). I know that's important, but haven't figured out why. (Sorry, Jon Hall.)

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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    The root is the Tonic or the most important tone of the chord. So for a C chord, C is the root, we expect a C to be played .
    We can add an E and G even a Bb for the 7th or B for the Major 7th and so forth.
    If the chords to the song are C F G, we expect to hear at least one C tone , and at least on F tone, and at least one G tone, when playing those chords.
    Root is important for tonality and resolution.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by tmsweeney View Post
    The root is the Tonic or the most important tone of the chord. So for a C chord, C is the root, we expect a C to be played .
    We can add an E and G even a Bb for the 7th or B for the Major 7th and so forth.
    If the chords to the song are C F G, we expect to hear at least one C tone , and at least on F tone, and at least one G tone, when playing those chords.
    Root is important for tonality and resolution.
    So, someone should play the root, but it doesn't have to be the mandolin, right?

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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Right. The bass player is usually playing the root.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    Also, even in solo playing, root can be omitted on many chords. It will be implied in the context of the chord progression, so the listener will “hear” the root - actually the modulation of the harmony to the root - when the chord is played. So I’d have to disagree on the importance of always playing the root for every chord, even when playing solo sans bass or guitar.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    I use a lot of double stops and if I chord, I like 3 finger chords much better. Since I am playing with a guitar I don't need to worry about the root and I can pull a double stop melody for some tunes, or a nice backup for others. Double stops and runs, very seldom chords.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    on the root - I really mean for basic harmony demonstration, but if you play just an EG instead of a C chord that could be an Em or an A7, and often omitting the root in a chord with an ensemble that has plenty of fingers to cover it can create harmonic suspension.
    I actually do hear many of the pros use full chords in solos but only here and there, circling back 3 finger chords and double stops work very well in solos and or ornamentation.
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    Default Re: Three string chords - good and bad?

    I personally recommend knowing both three and four string chords, I find myself reaching for both, depending on the situation and the particular sound that I want to make, some shapes are in different inversions and I love utilising those for a different sound and feeling when it is right for the piece.
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