Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

  1. #1

    Default mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    The Louisville Mandolin Orchestra has been active in the Louisville area since 1988, and continues on in spite of the viral pandemic. In those 33+ years we have accumulated a large library of mandolin orchestral music, as well as some old 'method' instructional books. In addition to local music, we have been gifted arrangements from inactive orchestras in Los Angeles, Cincinnati and the entire collection of the Chicago Mandolin Orchestra.
    This is an appeal to the mandolin orchestra community. What should we do with this historical treasure? Please let me hear of any proposals, offers or suggestions.
    John F. Rice, MD
    LMO

  2. The following members say thank you to eightmoremiles for this post:

    Eugene 

  3. #2
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    12,386

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    Get someone to scan / make digital copies of everything.

    There are *lots* of orchestras in this predicament and lots of collections of sheet music around the country, needing a coordinated effort to catalog and digitize all of it.

    Most of the Golden Age material should be public domain by now, but part of the project would entail researching copyright status and seeing what can be made available for free to other groups.

    Get in touch with CMSA and find out what other efforts are going on.
    Last edited by mrmando; Apr-05-2021 at 10:21pm.
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

    Lyon & Healy Wood Thormahlen Andersen Bacorn Yanuziello Fender National Gibson Franke Fuchs Aceto Three Hungry Pit Bulls

  4. The following members say thank you to mrmando for this post:


  5. #3

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    I second the digitization of all.

  6. The following members say thank you to Eugene for this post:


  7. #4
    Pataphysician Joe Bartl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Adamstown, MD
    Posts
    184

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    Can you provide more detail?
    What is the size of the collection (estimated number of scores)?
    Musical genres?
    How is the collection currently housed/accessed?
    What, ultimately, is your goal?:
    1) Get it into order so that you can locate individual works for your orchestra?
    2) Share the catalog with other orchestras so that scores can be identified and traded/borrowed/augmented?
    3) Digitize and make the copyright-free scores available to one and all? (Available how? Though, say IMSLP?)
    4) Start a shared online catalog for mando orchestras to contribute records/data?

    Thanks.
    Joe

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Joe Bartl For This Useful Post:


  9. #5
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    North CA
    Posts
    4,421

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    Another vote to digitize the collection, please.

  10. #6

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    Thanks to all respondents. We would also like to digitize the library. There are currently 588 titles cataloged, with a few more yet to be listed, for a total of about 600 titles. We do have a list of the titles cataloged, but no one has examined every one in detail to determine its suitability for mandolin orchestra performance. However, most of what I have seen would seem to fit that bill.
    Assuming 5 or more parts per score, and 4 or more pages per part, there could easily be 12-18,000 pages to be digitized. We are exploring how to turn this into manageable data, and relieve anyone of the responsibility of storing four tall 4 drawer filing cabinets. We don't want to call the shredder, and, although the LMO is a stable group with a fairly long history, we don't have the financial resources or personnel to effect such a task. And we don't have any tech geniuses who know how to wave a magic wand over a very large pile of 100+ year old music, and send it to "the cloud', whatever that is. Thus, the plea for help.

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to eightmoremiles For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    28,351

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    You may look into contacting various archives around the country who might be interested in obtaining it and you could negotiate them scanning your contribution and making those files available for your organization. Many years ago I accumulated a few mandolin cylinders but had no way to listen to them. I bought them for the sole purpose of acquiring the music. I looked into a guy who could digitize then for me but it would have been very costly. The I found the Cylinder archive in California and donated the cylinders to them. They were appreciative and the head assured me that he would put mine near the top of the queue.

    For the mandolin community I would also want to make sure it is an archive that would make the scans available to us mandolinists.

    i do agree with those above who say to contact CMSA. I believe they may have a scanning project in process or know which archives would be good.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  13. The following members say thank you to Jim Garber for this post:


  14. #8
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    12,386

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    I'm looking into the feasibility of getting a moderately priced overhead book scanner that would facilitate this task. This need has existed for a long time; I am not sure if CMSA has a viable plan in place or not, but the technology does exist.
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

    Lyon & Healy Wood Thormahlen Andersen Bacorn Yanuziello Fender National Gibson Franke Fuchs Aceto Three Hungry Pit Bulls

  15. #9

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    Thanks mrmando. I don't think CMSA has a definite plan. If you have further insight please let me know. I am encouraged by your optimism.

  16. #10
    Michael Reichenbach
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Freiburg Germany
    Posts
    461

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    I have started to use a CZUR scanner to scan my scores. This works good and fast. I have just ordered the newer model with a better camera and hope that this will produce even better scans.

    I have established a routine to finalize the scans to get clean scans, small files with a good quality, but it is also possible to produce PDFs directly from the scans.
    It does also work fine for bigger sheets.
    In some cases the scans are warped, but this should not be a problem.

    But also with this scanner it takes some time to scan a complete set of sheet music for a pices with all parts. I am trying to remove notes / dirt etc, which is time consuming but gives a clean score in the end.
    If anybody is interested in how I do my scans please send me a PM.



    Example: Ritter Mandolin Method

    Copyright is always a topic that makes scanning difficult, becaues in many cases biographical dates of the composers and arrangers are not known. A good database of composers with biographical data would be very helpful.

    A safe place to store scores like those in your collection until the music is free / public domain would be important.
    Maybe the CMSA could help to solve this problem.
    Homepage: www.mandoisland.de / Blog: www.mandoisland.com / Freiburg / Germany

  17. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mandoisland For This Useful Post:


  18. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,324

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    "I do agree with those above who say to contact CMSA."

    "I am not sure if CMSA has a viable plan in place or not."

    "I don't think CMSA has a definite plan."

    "A safe place to store scores like those in your collection until the music is free / public domain would be important.
    Maybe the CMSA could help to solve this problem."

    As CMSA has been mentioned several times and as I am a member of the CMSA Board of Directors, I will respond:

    --Currently CMSA does not own or rent physical archival storage facilities, and I do not expect this to change. Therefore, as a general rule (there are always exceptions), we do not take possession of physical objects, like sheet music, instruments, and the like.

    --we are contacted regularly by mandolin ensembles in the US with queries about historical collections. At present I am the person who responds to these queries. While there is always some variation, generally the response is to refer the person making the query to our grants program.

    --CMSA has operated a grants program for many years. We are delighted to consider proposals for digitizing historical sheet music. We can fund purchases of equipment, like scanners and portable hard drives; depending on the specifics, we might also be able to provide funds to pay for the scanning itself. We do NOT fund operating expenses -- so, for example, we would not pay for an annual Dropbox subscription for digital storage or for the ensemble to rent a storage locker at the local storage facility for physical storage. Our annual grants budget is VERY limited and there is always competition. The proposal has to be from a CMSA member.

    --very recently (i.e. within the last two weeks) CMSA received an inquiry from the Louisville Mandolin Orchestra. I responded promptly, exactly as described in the preceding paragraph.

    --with regard to digital collections, at present I would describe our policy as "server of the last resort". CMSA does maintain digital storage. If an ensemble is active we expect it to arrange for its own digital storage (again, our grants program does not fund operating expenses). If an ensemble is going out of existence, CMSA will consider hosting on its own storage, on a case by case basis. Access is CMSA members-only, so if an ensemble wants its digital collection to be available to the public, it would need to go the IMSLP (or similar) route.

    --many years ago CMSA had an actual physical library. The materials in the library have been digitized and will eventually be made available via our website to members, subject to copyright.

    -I am happy to provide advice gratis to members considering submitting a proposal to CMSA's grants program, or answer basic questions about copyright, etc. Detailed evaluations of collections is a different matter.
    Robert A. Margo

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to margora For This Useful Post:


  20. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Decorah, Iowa
    Posts
    752

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    I am very pleased to see this discussion come around once more. I thank my old LMO co-member, John Rice, for bringing it up. I especially thank my fellow CMSA member, Dr. Margo, for his thorough reply.

    I can add a couple of things from long experience with these issues. First, this is a large elephant we are dealing with and most of us are only seeing it from our perspective. As a long-time CMSA member I have been a part of many sessions and conversations at past conventions regarding this.

    The good news is that, as I once or twice argued decades ago, the technology is continuing to improve. My hope has long been that better technology will make the elephant a little smaller over time. Maybe one day the problem will be solved by some currently unimaginable tech solution. (I think there's an Arthur C. Clarke quote to this effect.)

    Secondly, I have long experience with the quite large archive that Dr. Rice has now inherited responsibility for. Long ago the LMO generously loaned my a number of collections of music for mandolin and guitar that I, using the then primitive technology available, digitized. You can find 10 or 11 of those collections at my "Golden Era" page on my Mandotopia site. (https://www.mandotopia.com/mandolinPD3.htm)

    Third, copyright is crucial. For instance, I know the LMO archive contains numerous pieces I have written for them. I am happy for them to be digitized and preserved but I own those copyrights and the LMO knows that they can't share them online, or anywhere, without my permission. The copyright status of much of the music in that collection is not so easy to determine. This all takes time and effort.

    Speaking of which, I have to rush off. It's great to see this conversation again.

    Apply for a CMSA grant and see what develops.

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to John Goodin For This Useful Post:


  22. #13

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    Thanks all, especially John G.
    We are making progress now, and I hope to report back how we successfully resolved this issue!

  23. The following members say thank you to eightmoremiles for this post:

    Eugene 

  24. #14
    Sheri Mignano Crawford Mandophile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Boyes Hot Springs, California
    Posts
    628

    Default Re: mandolin orchestra library. Help!

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kntmcad0c...bEsgEsZwa?dl=0 mandolin orch. De Stefano

    This link takes you to the orchestral mandolin works published by G. B. De Stefano, Philadelphia. There are lots more titles but each orchestration requires so much more work to produce one a complete arrangement. As you will see, instrumentation included flutes, violin, violas Bb cornet and Bb & A clarinet, drums etc. The flute part just for "Il Vesuvio" is 3 pages.

    Since Norman and I have been preoccupied with mandolin trios, we haven't had much time to really dig into the vast orchestral arrangements c. 1890-1910. Norman works on marching band and concert pieces, too.

    Out here in the San Francisco bay area, the paper microorganisms love a damp environment and entire libraries are wasting away as they sit in unairconditioned garages and damp basement level venues.

    First and foremost, a cover sheet of either a neutral or alkaline pH paper or a polyester film should be placed over the sheet music before it is placed in a neutral or alkaline pH folder. The backing sheet helps absorb the document's acidity and at the same time provides support and protection if the document is brittle or fragile as is often the case.

    As I've worked on Rudy Cipolla's compositions and arrangements, I am acutely aware that the quality of the paper and ink that he used in the 1930s went a long way in preserving the body of work. The extraordinary work he accomplished in the 1970s, 80s, & into the early 90s shows cheap paper, lousy sharpies, and a whiteout blizzard of mistakes. (Granted, his eyes sight was almost gone by then).

    I'm working on scanning all of his 1930s stuff. Not worth it to transcribe or convert to Sibelius. If I can do this, why can't others? Why haven't other musicians put aside time and effort to SAVE OUR MANDOLIN ORCHESTRA LIBARIES? Taking photographs of the sheet music is a great way to start if you can't scan a library.

    Second, a cataloging system, a bona fide central archive and patronage ($$$) would go a long way to start saving the heritage. My Dropbox is certainly at anyone's disposal who might have scanned orchestral pieces to upload. PM me. Sheri
    Sheri Mignano Crawford

    http://www.zighibaci.com (books)
    https://www.eurocafemusic.com (entertainment calendar--on hiatus)
    https://academia.edu (articles, monographs, papers)

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mandophile For This Useful Post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •