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Thread: Chord Questions

  1. #26
    Confused... or?
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtone2 View Post
    ... the bass note indicated by the slash does not have to be a chord tone.
    ... and most often isn't, except when it is! Just to expand our view a little:

    In the last few years, I've been playing the '30s-era "Smile" with my local library mandolin group ("Smile though your heart is aching, Smile even though it's breaking ..."), where I alternate between guitar and bass guitar. While the sheet music, in F, specifies an F-major chord over the first several lines, the MELODY itself (whether instrumental or sung) follows the "descending bass line" that's been discussed above, whereby each of the first three lines starts on F, E, and D. This effectively sounds the chords of F, Fmajor7, and F6, before diving into a somewhat jazzier finish of the progression.

    To confuse the issue, what I just called F6 shows in the sheet music as the "slash" chord of F/A (just a form of Fmajor, NOT an F6), which should be confusing as it's under a melody note of D. BUT, that chordally-consonant A in the bass provides a real nice set-up for the following Abdim chord, followed by Gminor ... yet more descending bass line!

    When I realized what was going on here, that opened the door to all sorts of fun, especially when playing bass! Mostly, I hope my comments provide some context for the seemingly-varied opinions above.

    BTW, that, IMHO, lovely lead line & chord progression was written by (wait for it!) ... Charlie Chaplin!
    Last edited by EdHanrahan; Jul-03-2021 at 1:29pm.
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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    I love that tune. Chaplin wrote it and someone else, don't remember who, added lyrics a long time after. I'm sure they were thinking of chaplin when they wrote the lyric.

    And yes, especially as mandolin players, when we see C/A we think C6, because of necessity pretty much every chord we play is some kind of inversion, but as has been covered in the thread the important thing is usually movement of the bass line.

    Edit: Nat King Cole was the first to record the song with lyrics.

  4. #28
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    So, how would you play a GmC7 chord? What is a possible replacement, where chord is over G and C notes?

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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    So, how would you play a GmC7 chord? What is a possible replacement, where chord is over G and C notes?
    No such beast as a GmC7 chord - spelt out it would be G, Bb,C,D,E,G,Bb - if anyone fancies naming it, have at it!
    "Give me a mandolin and I'll play you rock 'n' roll" (Keith Moon)

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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    So, how would you play a GmC7 chord? What is a possible replacement, where chord is over G and C notes?
    Sorry (not) to go French on you, but ša n'existe pas! That doesn't exist. Is that a typo?

    You've got to learn the nomenclature. Chords are written in specific ways because the way they are written means specific things. You would serve yourself better if you would figure out how to figure out these things as much as you can on your own, and only ask others when you are really stumped. We're happy to help, but we need to be able to understand you. You need to be able to look at what you've written and realize something doesn't look right. Now I really am sorry, but nothing in this post makes sense, as written. Please rephrase your question. Thanks.
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  7. #31
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    So, how would you play a GmC7 chord? What is a possible replacement, where chord is over G and C notes?
    I bet that's two separate chords. In the key of F it would be be a IIm (Gm) to V7 (C7) sequence, perhaps leading back to the I (F). It could also be a vamp replacing a long section of C7, since all 3 notes in Gm are also found in C7.

    D.H.

  8. #32
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hicks View Post
    I bet that's two separate chords. In the key of F it would be be a IIm (Gm) to V7 (C7) sequence, perhaps leading back to the I (F). It could also be a vamp replacing a long section of C7, since all 3 notes in Gm are also found in C7.

    D.H.
    Thanks, Dave. I have "Because He Lives" in 2 keys: F and G. At "gone" in the chorus, the F version shows GmC7. The G version has Am7, which makes me think the F version should have been written Gm7.

    Journeybear, I was "really stumped." There are some weird chords; I figured this was one of them. Had it occurred to me to check the G version equivalent earlier, I may not have posted the question, so I'll give you that. Also, GmC7 did not come up in a google search.

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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    The G version has Am7, which makes me think the F version should have been written Gm7.
    Aha! Now that makes sense.


    GmC7 did not come up in a google search.
    Nor should it. That doesn't make any sense. Looks like it was their typo, not yours. Sorry!

    Thanks for posting that. Your previous post was most puzzling. I did say I was sorry for posting as I did, but it's frustrating when trying to interpret a post in order to answer it. If you ever run into something like this again that just doesn't make sense, no matter how you try, post a screen shot. This looks like something got past their proofreader.
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  11. #34

    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Polecat View Post
    '... the "Tristan Chord" (F,B,D#,G#), an impossibility on the mandolin.'

    Eh? Don't know what that is - G#m6, perhaps? - but it's not impossible: 1121 On the mandolin, always inversions. But it won't have the same tonality, or as I see from reading up on it, if the root is F, the same effect.
    The 'Tristan' chord is a chord Wagner used in Tristan und Isolde that kind of turn classical harmony on its ear, so to speak. If anyone wants to do a mandolin arrangement of a Wagner opera for mandolin ensemble, I'm in! :-)

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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    When it comes to figuring out chords and inversions I have found this site incredibly helpful. Go for a wander.....lots of nooks and crannies.

    https://www.scales-chords.com/
    https://www.scales-chords.com/chdbmain.php

  13. #36
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by ajh View Post
    When it comes to figuring out chords and inversions I have found this site incredibly helpful. Go for a wander.....lots of nooks and crannies.

    https://www.scales-chords.com/
    https://www.scales-chords.com/chdbmain.php
    This is great! When I entered GmC7, Gm7 came up.

    Edit: I just took a second look and saw this:

    "GmC7 for Mandolin has the notes G Bb D F and can be played 6 different ways. Learn about its related chords and interval structure: R m3 5 m7.

    GmC7 Chord
    Standard name: Gm7"

    Interesting.

  14. #37

    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    Thanks, Dave. I have "Because He Lives" in 2 keys: F and G. At "gone" in the chorus, the F version shows GmC7. The G version has Am7, which makes me think the F version should have been written Gm7.
    Sherry

    With all due respect, I think that whoever posted the chords to "Because He Lives" simply forgot to put a space between two chords: Gm C7 is the ii-V7 chord progression in the key of F. That ii-V7-I progression is the most common in jazz and some other music styles.

    I did a search on "Because He Lives" and I found this chord in one version: AE7A. That is not a chord, but simply A E7 A without spaces in between.

    Take a look at this version:
    https://www.worshiptogether.com/song...lives-gaither/

    One could also easily think that the BmE7 was a special chord if not for a space in between. That is the ii-V7 progression for the key of A.

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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    This is great! When I entered GmC7, Gm7 came up.

    Edit: I just took a second look and saw this:

    "GmC7 for Mandolin has the notes G Bb D F and can be played 6 different ways. Learn about its related chords and interval structure: R m3 5 m7.

    GmC7 Chord
    Standard name: Gm7"

    Interesting.
    I wouldn't say that. I'd say, annoying. Irritating. Infuriating. "GmC7 for Mandolin has the notes G Bb D F" - and not C?!? This is SO clearly a typo, and it's baffling why it hasn't been caught and corrected, rather than repeated.

    Is this from a website? (I mean, the one with the sheet music; https://www.scales-chords.com/ is a functionary, and will ignore anything you put into its search engine that doesn't belong. (You get the same result from GmE7 as GmC7.)) Please inform them of their goof. Look how many people this error has disrupted - that we know about - and imagine how many more that we don't. Is it nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous typing, or to take arms against a clerical error, and by informing end it? 'Tis the latter, forsooth!

    PS: ScalesChords should also correct their display, so instead of saying:

    GmC7 Guitar Chord
    GmC7 Guitar Chord. 5 chord voicings, charts and sounds. Chord notes and structure: G Bb D F (R m3 5 m7).

    GmC7 Chord
    Standard name: Gm7

    it should inform the viewer GmC7 (or any erroneous chord name) is an error, and display something like:

    "There is no chord by that name. Did you mean Gm7?" And only then proceed with info on voicings and notes. They should not even by implication give any credence to the possible existence of a chord by that name.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    This is great! When I entered GmC7, Gm7 came up.

    Edit: I just took a second look and saw this:

    "GmC7 for Mandolin has the notes G Bb D F and can be played 6 different ways. Learn about its related chords and interval structure: R m3 5 m7.

    GmC7 Chord
    Standard name: Gm7"

    Interesting.
    Also note that when you enter GmC7, GmD7, GmE7, etc (in the chords-scales site)
    it will always come up Gm7. And, as noted, if it (GmC7) was in any way a valid chord there would be a C note included. Anybody that has experience with chord notations is familiar with chord callouts being run together and understand what is being said.

    If you mine down a bit you will hear audio files for both piano and guitar for most fingerings. Is also a great tool to see if your chord sounds "right" in context.

  18. #40
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Surely they meant Gm7/C at best. Not a terribly consonant chord... But with no C (and presumably no other instrument playing the C (in the bass too)...
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  19. #41
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    And of course Bb is the b7 of C... but still...
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  20. #42
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Polecat View Post
    No such beast as a GmC7 chord - spelt out it would be G, Bb,C,D,E,G,Bb - if anyone fancies naming it, have at it!
    Gm6 add 11

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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    All right. Here is the culprit. Please observe Measure #24. That is a typo. There should be a space between Gm and C7. Please go back to this piece of sheet music and leave a comment for the author so he can correct it. I don't feel like registering just so I can do this.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GmC7.jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	95.4 KB 
ID:	195015 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GmC7 cu.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	68.3 KB 
ID:	195017
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  24. #44

    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtone2 View Post
    Gm6 add 11
    C9/G, haha

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  26. #45
    Registered User lowtone2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by diggida View Post
    C9/G, haha
    E half dim

  27. #46
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtone2 View Post
    E half dim
    No C in that chord - I preferred your first suggestion. It is the kind of chord that crops up in "The Real Book" that almost everybody ignores.
    "Give me a mandolin and I'll play you rock 'n' roll" (Keith Moon)

  28. #47
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Polecat View Post
    No C in that chord - I preferred your first suggestion. It is the kind of chord that crops up in "The Real Book" that almost everybody ignores.

    Sometimes the fakebooks take whatever the melody note is, and apply that to naming the chord. Technically correct, but...

    So yes, I missed the C. Dang. How about E-7b5 add b13?

  29. #48

    Default Re: Chord Questions

    C9 seems a WHOLE lot easier than that, haha.

  30. #49

    Default Re: Chord Questions

    People have mentioned that a triad (three note chord) has three inversions. To be completely pedantic, triads can be in root position and TWO inversions. "Root position" isn't an inversion.

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  32. #50
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    Default Re: Chord Questions

    Good point. And thanks for bringing us back closer to something resembling reality.

    But then again ... Wouldn't a fingering with the tonic in the bottom but not expressed as 1-3-5 still be an inversion? To my mind, every chord on the mandolin is an inversion except for two: D 740x and A x740. Everything else has to be jiggered around to work.

    Oh, and good luck barring those! That's why I say there are only two true major triad chords.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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