Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

  1. #1

    Default Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    Hello all
    I have this small mandolin "Quartino" Roman style.
    It is 27,5 cm of vibrating string length, 52 cm overall length.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20210418_124515.jpg 
Views:	46 
Size:	843.9 KB 
ID:	193636
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20210418_124527.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	681.7 KB 
ID:	193637
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20210418_124504.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	948.2 KB 
ID:	193638
    Has anyone seen a similar instrument ? It has no label, but for me it is very similar to Embergher's concert mandolins , does anyone have any idea if Embergher actually made Quartinos ?
    Best wishes

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to quartino For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Barn Cat Mandolins Bob Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Beautiful Salem County, NJ
    Posts
    1,843

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    Hello Quartino,

    I have no idea as to whether Embergher made piccolo (sopranino) mandolins but wanted to thank you for posting this one. I have an active, ongoing interest in these diminutive members of the mandolin family and think they are under-represented in the mandolin world. This is a particularly nice example, with its numerous, fluted ribs. It's scale length seems about typical for sopraninos.

    Are you playing it? I hope you are, and I'll bet it has a beautiful, bright voice. Please just be sure to keep super-light strings on it. It would be a shame for this gorgeous instrument to get damaged.

    Happy picking,

    Bob
    Purr more, hiss less. Barn Cat Mandolins Photo Album

  4. #3

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    Hello Bob,
    Thank you for your reply!
    Do you have other specimens of these small mandolins ?
    Yes, I actively play it ; I have had it for ten years, it is strung with Thomastik medium and I tune it only one tone upper to regular mandolin tuning, which, I think, does not cause excess tension, what do you think ?
    Best wishes

  5. #4
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    28,338

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    It definitely is Roman style but I would say unlikely made in the Embergher shop. Most of the details don't match up to Embergher instruments I have seen. Scratchplate design is amateurish, headstock angle is much more severe than any Embergher concert models, and the headstock is routed much different from concert model Embergher 5bis. The Emberghers have a more pronounced curving inward in the shape of the back and I have never seen the fluting end like this one before the neck joint. I can't tell if the fretboard is radiused but, of course, it is also possible that for a smaller mandolin they could have dispensed with that feature. Also the shape of the "apron" on the back doesn't really match any Embergher models. Even student models have an extra curve in that part.

    This is not to say that it looks to be a very nicely made instrument. Post more photos!

    I love these quartino/piccolo instruments. I have a couple of vintage American ones, one by Leland/Lyon & Healy and a small bowlback unlabeled but possibly by George Bauer.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  6. The following members say thank you to Jim Garber for this post:


  7. #5

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    Thank you Jim for these details. I enclose here two photos, one showing the bridge with its special compensated design, and a close view of the headstock. The scratchplate design is simple indeed, but remember it is a small instrument, as you say for a smaller mandolin they could have dispensed with many special features.
    Attachment 193654
    Attachment 193655

  8. #6

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    For information/comparison, this is a more recent quartino, or rather "terzino" (scale length 28,8 cm), in a collection somewhere in France, made by Pascuale Pecoraro in the Embergher workshop Click image for larger version. 

Name:	quartino (2).jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	610.1 KB 
ID:	193656
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	quartino (4).jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	619.1 KB 
ID:	193657

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to quartino For This Useful Post:


  10. #7

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    And this is my Roman quartino close to my Neapolitan one, by Ermenegildo Ferrari, which is even smaller (but same scale length)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20210420_113036.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	1.34 MB 
ID:	193658

  11. The following members say thank you to quartino for this post:


  12. #8
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    28,338

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    Your photos above do not show up. The Pecoraro terzino has a fully-detailed scratchplate (scrolls) which was characteristic of the 5bis concert instruments.
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Apr-20-2021 at 7:11am.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  13. #9

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    Second attempt
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20210420_090810.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	1.25 MB 
ID:	193661
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20210420_090706.jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	384.9 KB 
ID:	193662

  14. The following members say thank you to quartino for this post:


  15. #10

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    Here is a picture of a regular-sized mandolin that is not in my possession; the photo is from an auction website, marked as "attributed to Embergher", and obviously of the same maker as my quartino... but it has no label inside. The design is a little more elaborate than on the quartino, but not much.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	embergher.JPG 
Views:	12 
Size:	80.8 KB 
ID:	193663

  16. The following members say thank you to quartino for this post:


  17. #11
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    28,338

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    I honestly don't think the workmanship on the OP's mandolin matches the quality of any era of the Embergher shop.

    Lorenzo Lippi posted this Embergher quartino on Embergher Facebook group. He says, "Mandolino "Quartino" 5bis (diapason ca. 28 cm).
    Luigi Embergher 1926." You could check with him to see if he has a clue who made yours.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Embergher-Quartino1926.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	24.6 KB 
ID:	193667
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  18. #12

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    If you have contact with Mr Lippi, could you send him the link to this page, so he can see our discussion? Thank you

  19. #13
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    28,338

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    He has posted here in the past. I don’t really know him well but you can reach him through his website: http://lippi.net/strumenti/mandolini/?lang=en
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  20. #14
    Barn Cat Mandolins Bob Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Beautiful Salem County, NJ
    Posts
    1,843

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    Quote Originally Posted by quartino View Post
    Hello Bob,
    Thank you for your reply!
    Do you have other specimens of these small mandolins ?
    Yes, I actively play it ; I have had it for ten years, it is strung with Thomastik medium and I tune it only one tone upper to regular mandolin tuning, which, I think, does not cause excess tension, what do you think ?
    Best wishes
    Hi Quartino,

    Sorry for the delayed reply. I'm super busy this time of year.

    I do have specimens of piccolo mandolins, but no bowl backs. Mine are all tuned up a fourth from a mandolin (Cgda) which is an octave above a mandola. All are in that 10.25" or so scale length. My first was a carved arch-top Mike Black made for me. It is a real joy and got me hooked. Here it is with my Phoenix Neoclassical for size comparison.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	black phoenix comparison.JPEG 
Views:	4 
Size:	1.70 MB 
ID:	193694

    Next, I started building flat-top piccolos and have made a number of them. Here's a picture of one, but you can see others in the photo albums I have posted (click on the link at the bottom of this post, or click on my name to get to my page which has two albums).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Kitten 101220 Side Front.JPG 
Views:	6 
Size:	2.28 MB 
ID:	193695
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Kitten 101220 Back.JPG 
Views:	4 
Size:	3.43 MB 
ID:	193696

    I use D'Addario EJ73 strings on mine and they work fine. On a bowl back, though, I'd want less tension. If you are happy with the Thomastik's, then why change? Experience is telling you they're OK!

    Best wishes,

    Bob
    Purr more, hiss less. Barn Cat Mandolins Photo Album

  21. #15

    Default Re: Roman quartino (piccolo mandolin) by Embergher ?

    Hi All. I second Jim's opinion, certainly a Roman-style instrument, but not made by Embergher. Although Embergher did made piccolos, real Emberghers (again, as Jim's mentioned) look different and plus they always had labels inside and the labels were stuck using strong hide glue, so even on instruments broken to pieces the label (or it's remains) is usually there. The one "attributed" to Embergher is likely not made by Embergher either. Luthiers in Catania made Roman models with certain degree of freedom and my guess that it could well may be a Catanese instrument.

    I had a Roman instrument of a standard size in the past. It had somewhat similar floral scratchplate design. No label. I received a message from an Italian collector saying it was most certainly made in Catania.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20190415_171721.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	431.8 KB 
ID:	193719
    Last edited by vic-victor; Apr-22-2021 at 5:46am.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •