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Thread: Shop dust

  1. #1
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Shop dust

    I have never had an issue with woodworking dust but my family has, itchy eyes, sneezing etc. How do you handle the fine stuff? I have a great dust collection system for my sanders but the band saw and table saw the cyclone dust collector just doesn't get the fine stuff and the extractor for my sanding doesn't move enough air? Do you all use very large dust collectors or use shop air filtration of some sort? I might have to make a small isolated cutting area. Or invest in a large dust collector. I use those two machines little enough it was hard to buy the small dust collector.
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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    I have a 2 HP dust collector. It gets a lot of it. I haven't felt the need yet for an additional dust filter but there are folks that make their own all over the web as well as smaller units sold for small shop use.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Shop dust

    The only way to eliminate dust is to not cut wood. That being said a ceiling mounted “air scrubber” will help with the really fine stuff. There are several manufactures that supply them or they can be easily made using a squirrel cage motor and several filters.

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    Default Re: Shop dust

    And do forget your PPE (Personal Protection Equipment). While the dust collection system gets most of the airborne fines there will still be some floating in the air, especially as you are feeding your wood into the machine in use. Some dust is always blown back in your face. Some woods (walnut for example) are considered dangerous to your lungs. Use a respirator instead of a dust mask. A dust mask is generally to be used for "nuisance dust". I use a respirator with replaceable cartridges on the face mask. You'll be surprised what those filters look like after a short while.
    Ok, full disclosure I used work for a company that sold PPE. I can't stop preaching
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  6. #5
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    All of the above.

    One thing that I did in my shop is:
    My heat (and AC) source is a heat pump. I placed my air handler in a closet with air filter racks in the door and wall. I have 2" thick filters; not quite hepa rated but reasonably five filtration, covered by regular air handler filters in the racks. The first filter acts as a pre-filter and gets the larger particles. I can take them out and blow the dust out of them frequently. I checked with the HVAC guy who installed the unit and he said it is OK to set the fan to run continuously, so if I'm going to be making dust I set the fan to "ON' rather than "AUTO".

    So, when I'm really making dust, I have my dust collector attached to the tool, my ceiling-mounted air purifier running, my air handler running and my N95 mask on my face. That's about all I can do short of not cutting wood.

    Oh, and for sanding I have a down-draft sanding table.

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  8. #6
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-D View Post
    The only way to eliminate dust is to not cut wood. That being said a ceiling mounted “air scrubber” will help with the really fine stuff. There are several manufactures that supply them or they can be easily made using a squirrel cage motor and several filters.
    I made one of these with an old Duct Fan that an HVAC tech friend gave me. I mounted a home made filter holder in front of it to fit the same sized (2" deep) filters as my home HVAC. I have a kiddo with asthma, so we have our household filters on a very frequent rotation and I am very diligent about replacing them quarterly. They don't typically get super dirty since we live in GA and don't have to run the HVAC constantly, so I always have a supply of filters to draw from when the one in my shop gets too loaded up.

    This combined with a simple cyclone style dust separates that is hooked to my shop vac for my tools (big and small) does a great deal to help the dust. I also wear a respirator when I am doing tasks that I know will generate more dust.
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  9. #7
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    I am in SD, it is very dusty here, very windy, and I live in the country surrounded by farmland. I think I will just try venting my dust collector outside and see how that helps. The dust gets dumped outside in the clay anyway. I have a lead on two of the Powermatic ceiling-mounted dust collectors that are still in their boxes. The guy moved shops right after he bought them and the new shop has very high ceilings so he never installed them. This also gives me a push to finish a detached workshop. Thanks everyone!
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  10. #8
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    I spent a fortune on Festool ct26 and Rotex sanders. I am constantly amazed at how well it collects the dust. You don't see it in the air or on the equipment. As close to no dust as I think anyone could get with those beasts. Funny in my 55 years I have never worn a dust mask for woodworking. I have never had an issue but I know some do and I need to make sure the family is safe.
    Thanks everyone!
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  11. #9
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    I try not to create fine dust. I don't have sanders or any power tools producing lots of dust. Handsaws, planes, scrapers etc. Very little final sanding of surfaces. I just looked at the top surface of my shop cabinet where I haven't looked for two years at least and layer of dust was minimal. Our bedroom cabinets collect as much dust on their tops in a month or two.
    Adrian

  12. #10

    Default Re: Shop dust

    How about shop dust is a sign that things are getting done?

    Something like the cluttered desk analogy....

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  14. #11

    Default Re: Shop dust

    I have a 1,000cfm dust collector. I ran a 4" hard line down one wall with blast gates for the jointer and sliding miter. I have a 4" flex duct that alternates between the planer, large bandsaw, tablesaw, and router table- depending on what's in use. The orbital sander is hooked up to a Fein vac designed for that use. The biggest offenders are the tablesaw (there's no way around the the spit off the top of the blade) and those times when the router is free-handed instead in the table.

    When I'm generating dust that the system doesn't catch, such as processing a lot of hardwood on the tablesaw, I wear my 3m mask with the pink filters in the place of the cartridges. It seals perfectly and doesn't fog my glasses.

    The biggest danger with sawdust is the micro-fine stuff, we're talking sub 2 micron here, such as that generated by routers. It can make it's way past the cilia in your air passages and become lodged in the lungs. Fine Woodworking has had some good articles about these hazards.

  15. #12
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    Don’t think because you have no problem now that you also won’t in the future. Sheet goods have chemicals in the glue, separate from the issues of the fine dust particles. And some species, such as cedar, redwood and cocobolo can gradually sensitize you to where you can’t handle them, let alone breath the dust.

    Dust is a sign of bad habits, not accomplishment. We won’t mention the explosion hazard.
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  16. #13
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    Well, sheet goods are always cut outside. As is the treated lumber. Inside I work mostly with pine or spruce or fir. This is how it has always been even in school. But now that have have more of other than my traditional woods I look to do more. There is now where near enough dust to create an explosion. I’m no slob. Any exotics were small resurface and cut by hand with a dust collector going to draw up the dust. I now have a lot of wood to process, hand saws and small dust collectors will not be enough in my opinion to keep things as dust free as I want. Which is why I asked here. And wether people agree or not Inwont be wearing any masks for the work I do. I will improve ventilation and directed flow so it won’t be an issue.
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  18. #14

    Default Re: Shop dust

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    I try not to create fine dust. I don't have sanders or any power tools producing lots of dust. Handsaws, planes, scrapers etc. Very little final sanding of surfaces. I just looked at the top surface of my shop cabinet where I haven't looked for two years at least and layer of dust was minimal. Our bedroom cabinets collect as much dust on their tops in a month or two.
    Adrian, I'd love to follow you around for a few days. Recently I resawed some walnut and cherry for bookmatched flat octave mandolin backs. Because I didn't trust getting perfectly straight cuts in sawing the span of a nearly eight inch wide board, I cut them a little thick. Then, thinking of you, I got out my hand planes and finally had to conclude that I either need to run them through a planer or the thickness sander I'm building.

    Maybe it's easier to avoid dust when carving tops and backs instead of making large thin panels, and then just having the rims to thin, which would me much more manageable.

    I don't know. I aspire to work more like you, but I'm not there yet!

  19. #15
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    It's interesting all the comments but to diverge a bit in my very first High School woodworking class we were not allowed to use power tools. We had to learn hand tools and the very first one was the hand plane. To graduate past it you had to take aboard and square it. Every side edge and corner had to be square. You should have seen a 12"x12"x1" board slowly shrink. I don't think anyone got out of that part of the class without the board being reduced by almost 50%. Just when you thought you had one done another that you had done was now out. It was a real challenge.

    Thinking on it, it is probably why dust has not been an issue for me, a vast majority of what I did was with hand tools. I have power tools but generally use them sparingly. I hadn't ramped up for them until recently when I started getting more material in bulk.

    I like the smell of most wood shops but don't want to breathe in that fine stuff, more than that I don't want my family breathing it in.

    Now if you really want to master the plane do the exercise I mentioned above it is a real challenge the first time and many more subsequent times.
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  20. #16
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    Quote Originally Posted by Parker135 View Post
    Adrian, I'd love to follow you around for a few days. Recently I resawed some walnut and cherry for bookmatched flat octave mandolin backs. Because I didn't trust getting perfectly straight cuts in sawing the span of a nearly eight inch wide board, I cut them a little thick. Then, thinking of you, I got out my hand planes and finally had to conclude that I either need to run them through a planer or the thickness sander I'm building.

    Maybe it's easier to avoid dust when carving tops and backs instead of making large thin panels, and then just having the rims to thin, which would me much more manageable.

    I don't know. I aspire to work more like you, but I'm not there yet!
    I don't do furniture so I rarely plane large surfaces. One thing that folks often forget is that in the old days the woodworkers had several planes dedicated to different tasks. For large surfaces a blade sharpened to very slightly concave curve works better as the blade edges won't dig into the workpiece and chip out smal splinters when you set up the plane for deeper cuts. You need to think about adjusting chip breaker accordingly - for rough work back it well away from cutting edge - you will det some chip out but it will cut much easier. For final passes adjust the chipbreaker close to edge and do fine final cuts. Or use toothed blade and scrapers for deeply figured woods.
    I have old cheap rough #4 for such tasks and during the latest planing session (preparing spruce wedges from raw split wedges and also truing surfaces of maple) I produced about 1/2 cubic meter of large plane shavings (tightly packed in two large plastic bags). Of course it took me half day or more and LOTSA SWEAT. I admit for me this is mostly hobby (that pays for itself) so I don't have to be as effective as modern factories. And my workshop is too small for any machine 8 square meters (~86 square feet) room, half of which is occupied by benches and cabinets and with some additional space that is choke full of wood so I just have to do it with hand tools only.
    I've been looking into modern machines and CNC, actually I started CNC build few years ago but somehow interrupted it - kind of not sure if it won't take the fun out of the work - I love cutting the wood with blades. I may resume it soon (when Corona permits) as I feel my wrists, neck and back are no longer what they used to be, ironically mostly becauseof my computer work during day job and perhaps some of the tough building work I do when rebuilding our old weekend house. But I enjoyed making new doorframe exactly in the old style to match the rest of the house using only the few handtools I took from home.
    Adrian

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  22. #17
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    Having learned how, I actually find it rather easy to flatten and square lumber using hand tools. Not fast, but not difficult. Usually the difficulty beginners encounter is not the work of planing, but instead the understanding of what process is needed to accomplish the work.
    I think whoever taught John's wood shop class had the right idea. When we learn what it takes to do a job by using hand tools to do it, we then better understand what our power tools are doing for us, and we can (if we pay attention) use them better and more efficiently.

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  24. #18
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    Well I was on the fence about venting outside, changing to a cartridge filter, or adding a cyclone separator. I ordered the cartridge filter from wynnenviromental, I think I will add a four inch Oneida cyclone as well and make it possible to vent outside when in my basement. Portable, good for a machine and clean enough to use without venting when needed, for instance the -35f temps I see a lot of in the winter.

    On a different note, have any of you made a successful downdraft table for hand sanding and or inlay cutting! I have a few ideas in mind. I would connect to the dust collector. I am curious if you have and what you would change or any obstacles you encountered. Thanks!
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  25. #19
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bertotti View Post
    ...have any of you made a successful downdraft table for hand sanding and or inlay cutting!...
    I made one that works. It is simply a shallow plywood box with large dowels (broom handles) attached to and spanning across the top, spaced so that foam pipe insulation placed on the dowels leaves space enough for dust to be vacuumed through. It has a blast gate 4" connection at one end where I can attach my shop dust collector. As I said, it works, but I would not call it fully successful because it is loud. I wear my gearing protectors when I use it. I made it as a temporary solution for sanding dust control, planning to make a better one later. As so often happens, once the temporary version was in place and working, the incentive for making a better one decreased to the point that it just hasn't happened yet.
    My idea for improvement is to make a box with tapered sides, like a hopper, with a squirrel cage fan mounted below and some sort of filter banks to catch the dust on it's way toward the fan.

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  27. #20
    Registered User amowry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    I made my downdraft table too. It’s connected to my dust collector and does have a plenum with tapered sides like John mentioned. I used pegboard for the top and drilled extra holes, countersank all the holes, and routed little grooves between them to give it more collection area. I use that gray shelf liner mat to protect instruments while I’m sanding. It works well and I wouldn’t consider sanding without a downdraft table of some kind.

    I also have the Wynn cartridge and Oneida cyclone, and you’ll notice a huge difference when you add those two things. A lot of dust goes right through those felt bags that come with many dust collectors, and if it’s open to the rest of your shop it puts a lot of the finest dust right back into the air. I also have my dust collector in a closet with filtered outtake, and an overheard air cleaner that I don’t use as much as I should but I do turn on whenever I’m making lots of dust. The worst culprit is actually a pedestal buffer, if you use one, throwing all at fine abrasive in the air .

    Ignore the PCBs in the photo...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: Shop dust

    Quote Originally Posted by amowry View Post
    I made my downdraft table too. It’s connected to my dust collector and does have a plenum with tapered sides like John mentioned. I used pegboard for the top and drilled extra holes, countersank all the holes, and routed little grooves between them to give it more collection area. I use that gray shelf liner mat to protect instruments while I’m sanding. It works well and I wouldn’t consider sanding without a downdraft table of some kind.

    I also have the Wynn cartridge and Oneida cyclone, and you’ll notice a huge difference when you add those two things. A lot of dust goes right through those felt bags that come with many dust collectors, and if it’s open to the rest of your shop it puts a lot of the finest dust right back into the air. I also have my dust collector in a closet with filtered outtake, and an overheard air cleaner that I don’t use as much as I should but I do turn on whenever I’m making lots of dust. The worst culprit is actually a pedestal buffer, if you use one, throwing all at fine abrasive in the air .

    Ignore the PCBs in the photo...
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	193862
    Nice downdraft table Andrew. How much sanding do the PCBs require? Sorry, had to make a joke.

  30. #22
    Registered User amowry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    I do actually sand the edges on the belt sander to clean them up, so it’s not unheard of . They’re mostly just there because I have a tiny shop and there are never enough flat surfaces...

  31. #23
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    Never enough surfaces, ain’t it the truth!

    How do you like the Mirkos? I use two Rotex, rRO 90 and RO 150 from Festool. No air operated sander though. What I like is how well they perform, virtually dust free when connected to the dust extractor.
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  32. #24
    Registered User amowry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    I like the Mirka a lot. The first one I had died after a few months, but the replacement has been great so far. I also have the pneumatic version, but I only use it backup as my compressor is barely big enough to keep up with it.

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  34. #25
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shop dust

    Kind of a y in the road here but I am curious what you all use to sand. I have never used a power sander on an instrument after assembly but maybe some of you do? Other than sanding and thickness of initial parts how much sanding do you do with power tools? What and when in your process do you switch to hand sanding if ever? In the last year all of my sanding literally, has been floors or furniture. Obviously for those, I use power tools. But the last instrument I made was 100% hand sanding even the thicknessing which was planes and sanding blocks or pads. Thansk!
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