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Thread: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    12? (Gulp!)

    I do see what you mean - and have some idea of changing from a major to minor, 7th, etc. Seems it might be difficult to apply those when playing along (i.e., not in the lead) at a jam - unless you there's another mandolin player to watch - or unless you know guitar chords and can watch a guitar player.
    This is where playing along to tunes at home will help - familiarizing your ear to hearing chord changes (and when the chord changes).

    Listening for and hearing when chords change is fundamental. Listen, a lot.

    After you get an ear for the flow of things, you can then play along easily with a chart (chord sheet) of the tune, or if someone just tells you what the chords are (or key, later in your progress) at the outset of a tune.

    Many youtubes display the chords as the tune is playing. Have you seen this?

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  3. #27
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post
    This is where playing along to tunes at home will help - familiarizing your ear to hearing chord changes (and when the chord changes).

    Listening for and hearing when chords change is fundamental. Listen, a lot.

    After you get an ear for the flow of things, you can then play along easily with a chart (chord sheet) of the tune, or if someone just tells you what the chords are (or key, later in your progress) at the outset of a tune.

    Many youtubes display the chords as the tune is playing. Have you seen this?
    I'm pretty good at hearing chord changes, although I have to guess as to the chord unless I happen to have a chart, of course.

    I haven't noticed a YouTube video with the chords displayed. How great is that!

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    12? (Gulp!)

    I do see what you mean - and have some idea of changing from a major to minor, 7th, etc. Seems it might be difficult to apply those when playing along (i.e., not in the lead) at a jam - unless you there's another mandolin player to watch - or unless you know guitar chords and can watch a guitar player.
    well first you may know I hate the word Jam! It started off with jazz musicians many years ago and has regressed to anyone who owns an instrument now, anyway...

    There's different skill level players at these sit-ins. I would expect from beginners to intermediate and mostly bluegrass and traditional players that don't play tunes with an intricate chord structure but mostly in the keys G, C, D or A etc which is fine...so a simple moveable chord structure would be something like a 145 in the key of G which is GCD so if someone did the tune in D the 145 would be DGA etc etc or am I being too basic math instead of thoughts of calculus ? Bluegrass, Traditional = Math...Swing, Jazz = Calculus

    Ear training will get you there. Being able to hear the changes just by listening. Start with a 3 chord tune, hear the changes from a 1 to 4 to 5 chord or if you listen to James Brown the band can groove out on the 1 chord for 5 minutes and then James says "now hit me" and they move to the 3 chord and groove

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Here is something fun, and very useful. If you know the four finger bluegrass chords, it isn't hard to break them apart into three finger chords, with the top or the bottom course not strum.

    So it would be very straight forward to find a three finger closed form chord for G, C, and D. And then once knowing them, get good at going back and forth between them.

    Last step, move them up and down the neck, still going between the three of them. Two frets up you are doing A, D, and E chords etc.

    You are well on your way.

    If you recognize which finger it is in your configuration that is fingering the note of the chord, then you can put that finger anywhere and play the chord for the fingered note. A month or two of practice later and you will never again have nothing to do backing any tune in any key.
    This is essentially how I learned to move chord shapes around. And it really is that simple - get the feel for how I-IV-V works in the key of G using 3-finger chop chords (no pinky), then move those same patterns up the neck. Move up 2 frets and you're playing in A. Move up 3 frets and you're in Bb. 4 frets gives you B. Then you figure that out for 1st position C. Get comfortable with it, and you have D and E as you move up the neck.

    I would also say to have patience with yourself. None of this is rocket science, but it takes a while for the brain to process these things and make them automatic. Learning which finger is playing the root note of the chord shapes makes them easier to move.
    Mitch Russell

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Ah yes - identifying the root. Good thing to know.

    In a major triad, the three notes in the scale being used are I - III - V. The intervals are 4 and 3, and the intervals between the root and the other two notes are 4 and 7 - the inverses of which are 8 and 5. So look for those intervals in the fingerings of the three chord forms I posted.

    The 4 won't show up because I didn't include the G chop chord (except in passing), but it's there: 7523. That "52" is a difference of four, and that 5 is your "G." In fact. all three indicators are in this chord. The 75 is your I - V inversion, and the 23 is your I - III inversion.

    The values for the intervals in the above paragraph are derived thus:
    The 75 is up a string (7) and down two frets (-2), so that's 5.
    The 52 is up a string (7) and down three frets (-3), so that's 4.
    The 23 is up a string (7) and up one fret (1), so that's 8.

    You see these intervals in chords all the time. Like in the third form, the "E form." The bottom two strings are the inverted I - III of the chord, with the root at the second fret of the D string. Same in the second form, the "C form," with the middle strings.

    I hope this makes some kind of sense to you. I know it's a lot all at once.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    1 Learn the position on the fretboard of ALL 6 G notes. Name them by string and fret number. Eg. 4/0 3/5 2/10 1/3 etc. That should take 5 minutes.
    2 Start by looking and then switch the lights off. Youíre going to move your first finger to each G.
    3 Now (lights on again) with first finger at 3/5 ask yourself where the four fours are, give precise answer ie. 5/5 2/3 3/10 and down off the nut somewhere. More importantly, give relative answers eg. Adjacent note towards the sky...
    5 Where are the fives (D notes) IN COMPARISON to this G at 3/5. Ie. 2/5 4/7 3/12
    6 Now use chord shapes on these roots.

    7 Now start again using the 4ths as though they are the first notes and find THEIR relative 4ths and fifths. Same patterns as before...

    Good luck!

    Ps where, relatively speaking are the sixths? These are the roots of the relative minors of you 1, 4 and 5ís. You can play them as pairs.
    Last edited by Simon DS; Apr-26-2021 at 4:58pm.

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  12. #32
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    I hope this makes some kind of sense to you. I know it's a lot all at once.
    I'm copying all the comments into Word to better study them. I so appreciate everyone's input.

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Well, good luck with that. Once you have it all compiled and are ready to produce in some legible fashion Cadenhead's Curriculum of Chording Correctly Amidst Chaos, please share it with us. I'm curious to see if it all works together in one coherent compendium that makes sense of all these varying inputs. And also to make sure none of us has led you astray ...
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    I attended an acoustic gospel jam yesterday with a friend who has played mandolin well for years. Afterwards I asked for suggestions for improving my skills. She indicated I should learn "all the chord shapes" so I can play in any key. I do know the movable shapes, but freak out when a tune is in any key other than G, C, D, A or F. Is there a systematic way to practice, say, just the I, IV, V(7) chords in different keys so as to get the hang of those before moving on?

    I like the idea of playing along with recorded music, and could actually do that in different keys at Musicnotes.com now that I think about it, although I would only be able to play the preview page.

    Other suggestions?
    There's an app, someone already mentioned it, called iRealPro. It will play any song that someone has added to it, thousands, display the chord chart, and you can change to any key, any tempo, select various instrumentation... This is an invaluable learning tool, and a good jamming tool too. Must have! All, as in virtually ALL, jazz players have and use this app. Bluegrass and folk are in it too.

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  16. #35
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Someone will beat me up for asking this, but is there a good reason not to (initially, at least) use solely the D and G style shapes?
    Last edited by Sherry Cadenhead; Apr-26-2021 at 10:05pm. Reason: Poor attempt at humor.

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Yes.




    Oh, what's the reason? Well, in a word, totality. Let's say you're into painting. Would you paint a landscape using only two colors? Use all the colors on your palette. Some work better than others for different situations and different reasons. Don't paint the sky yellow or the sun blue. But you can mix them and paint the grass green.

    Same with chords. Different chords have different sounds. Even different fingerings for the same chord sound different. Also, they allow different action, different-sounding progressions. The possibilities aren't endless, but they're many and varied. Why limit yourself? Learn them all. Maybe not all at once, but bit by bit, work your way through everything.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Fingertips of leather Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    Someone will beat me up for asking this, but is there a good reason not to (initially, at least) use solely the D and G style shapes?
    It’s a fine place to start. It’s how you grow that matters. The music you like will illuminate the trail.

    Many paths are available.
    Play it like you mean it

    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Ratliff CountryBoy A
    00-21 (voiced by Eldon Stutzman)

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  20. #38
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    It’s a fine place to start. It’s how you grow that matters. The music you like will illuminate the trail.

    Many paths are available.
    That's what I'm thinking, Bill. It really was a dumb question. We all have to start somewhere and barring isn't my first choice.

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    Fingertips of leather Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    It’s a recurring question with each new thing, ‘how to practice x’. You’ll encounter and solve the problem many times in your playing.

    Enjoy it.
    Play it like you mean it

    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Ratliff CountryBoy A
    00-21 (voiced by Eldon Stutzman)

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    We all have to start somewhere and barring isn't my first choice.
    I get that. It may feel uncomfortable, scrunching your fingers into awkward, even painful forms in order to make these fingerings. I went through this myself when I was starting out. I realized I was sacrificing my physicality for my art, so to speak. My hands are just a bit too large for the instrument. The first knuckle of my first finger is a bit of a goner as a result. But it was a sacrifice I was willing to make, because I could see it would allow me to achieve so much more.

    Perhaps your adjustment won't be so extreme. But being able to play these chords will help your abilities to evolve. Achieving your goals may involve a bit of a sacrifice, but it'll be worth it.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    Someone will beat me up for asking this, but is there a good reason not to (initially, at least) use solely the D and G style shapes?
    Sherry, I think most, if not all of the major, minor and sevenths are modifications of a two finger G (0-0-2-3) and a two finger D (2-0-0-2); granted there are a whole world of modifications using: one, two, three or four fingers. Iím not trying to be a smarty pants but it is good mental and musical exercise to figure this out. Any major chord that has the 3rd of the major chord one string and one fret lower than the root is the basic shape, or variant, of G. Any major chord that has the 5th on the same fret but one string higher than the root is the basic shape or variant of D. I hope this helps and doesnít hinder.

  26. #42
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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Hall View Post
    Sherry, I think most, if not all of the major, minor and sevenths are modifications of a two finger G (0-0-2-3) and a two finger D (2-0-0-2); granted there are a whole world of modifications using: one, two, three or four fingers. I’m not trying to be a smarty pants but it is good mental and musical exercise to figure this out. Any major chord that has the 3rd of the major chord one string and one fret lower than the root is the basic shape, or variant, of G. Any major chord that has the 5th on the same fret but one string higher than the root is the basic shape or variant of D. I hope this helps and doesn’t hinder.
    You're always a help, Jon. I was looking at the chord shapes you drew for me the other day. Probably need to look again in the context of this thread.

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Personally if y'all want to get to grips with chords and the more out there keys, I advise just playing chords along to songs in those keys, it's how I learned at the very least, I hope that helps you. I know it's not much advice but it is what taught me how to do that very thing.
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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rossjcw View Post
    Personally if y'all want to get to grips with chords and the more out there keys, I advise just playing chords along to songs in those keys, it's how I learned at the very least, I hope that helps you. I know it's not much advice but it is what taught me how to do that very thing.
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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Play more. Read less. All these pieces of advice and musings are good as far as they go. But you have to learn from doing. Learn on your own, for yourself, rather than listen to others try to teach you. Explore and discover as you go. That's the real way to learn.

    Besides, don't you just want to play, and make some music, and have some fun with it? Keep all this in the back of your mind, for sure, but the main point is to learn how to play, and the best way to learn is to play.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  33. #46
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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon DS View Post
    1 Learn the position on the fretboard of ALL 6 G notes. Name them by string and fret number. Eg. 4/0 3/5 2/10 1/3 etc. That should take 5 minutes.
    2 Start by looking and then switch the lights off. You’re going to move your first finger to each G.
    3 Now (lights on again) with first finger at 3/5 ask yourself where the four fours are, give precise answer ie. 5/5 2/3 3/10 and down off the nut somewhere. More importantly, give relative answers eg. Adjacent note towards the sky...
    5 Where are the fives (D notes) IN COMPARISON to this G at 3/5. Ie. 2/5 4/7 3/12
    6 Now use chord shapes on these roots.
    Interesting visual!


    7 Now start again using the 4ths as though they are the first notes and find THEIR relative 4ths and fifths. Same patterns as before...
    By "4ths" you mean C notes (in this illustration)?

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by CBFrench View Post
    well first you may know I hate the word Jam! It started off with jazz musicians many years ago and has regressed to anyone who owns an instrument now, anyway...
    Well, I still love a good jazz jam session. Honestly there aren't as many of them as there once were.

    The idea behind a true jazz jam session was to allow a player to solo for as long as the ideas were flowing; one could take chorus after chorus as long as you played new ideas and didn't repeat yourself.

    If a few players ( usually on the same instrument) decide to see which of them can keep the ideas going in a good-natured "battle" it becomes a "cutting contest".

    Anyway, the use of the term "jam session" now to refer to any sort of informal musical gathering in any style where people play tunes and sometimes play solos or "breaks".

    I still think in terms of a jam session being a place to play jazz.

    Sorry for the off-topic post.

  35. #48

    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Sherry, if you want to practice playing along with a human, check out Tyler Grant's slow jam on youtube. He has jams at different speeds, but he's going to tell you the song, key, chords etc. You will learn some cool songs and can practice just playing chords or taking a solo if you want. He is pretty explicit about each song. Here's a recent one:

    And here is a list of all of his slow jams he played on Youtube. You can always pause, rewind etc. Come back to the same jam over and over, etc.
    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...grant+slow+jam
    Enjoy

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  37. #49

    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    Interesting visual!
    By "4ths" you mean C notes (in this illustration)?
    Yes Sherry, the new number 1 is the C note, you find all the C’s on the fretboard (easy because they are all up one string to sky or down one string to ground and down two frets. Then go through the same patterns.

    Then you do the fourth of the fourth, the F and same patterns.

    Then the fourth of the fourth of the fourth (Bb) etc.

    After a while you wont know what key (1st) you are in but it wont matter because it’s 4th is there and 5th is there.

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    Default Re: Best Way to Practice Moveable Chords???

    Josh, that is a great learning platform you have posted there of Tyler Grant. He does a great job of putting over his material to the listener/watcher. I have just spent some time jamming along with him!
    I'm playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. - Eric Morecambe

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