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Thread: Amplification

  1. #26
    Registered User Polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Amplification

    It is worth pointing out that amplification is never only about just making an instrument louder, some tone-shaping is always involved. If you were able to take the sound of your '22 Gibson and ramp it up to rock band volume, you would probably find the result quite unpleasant, if not painful - very hard and penetrating; the solution is to reduce the high mids (it has to do with how our ears "hear" sound - that's what the "loudness" button on old-fashioned hi fi amplifiers was about).

    The goal is to produce a signal that is loud enough to be heard in an electric band context that still sounds like a mandolin and is pleasant to listen to. You write that you were unhappy with an Eastman because it "sounded like an electric guitar" - the fault may well not lie in the instrument, rather in the amplifier - there are no commercially available electric mandolin amplifiers, and most people end up using guitar amps which are voiced to produce an electric guitar sound, as you discovered. It is possible to modify a (valve-) amp to produce a more mandolin sound, but not easy to find a technician who can perform the operation (I did it myself by trial and error, but do not regard myself as qualified to give sound advice). Also, the pickup may not be ideal (I've never played an Eastman electric, so I'm speculating here). http://www.almuse.co.uk/mandolin_pickups.html offers specifically mandolin-voiced pickups, which are a great improvement on the standard pickups on Fender and Epiphone electrics (here I am speaking from experience)

    Any solution which involves sticking a transducer, be it piezo or contact mic, on the soundboard of an acoustic instrument has its limits as regards volume, although I believe there are some very effective feedback killers (in effect, intelligent notch filters) available. Playing into a microphone, be it clip on or on a stand is more prone to feedback than the pickup route.

    For my acoustic mandolins (1908 Gibson A3 and a Vanden from '86) I use an AKG c411 contact mic direct into the soundboard, and if it gets really loud or I'm just feeling raucous, I plug in a custom-built 8 string solidbody with an Almuse "Aggressor" pickup into a 15W valve amp that I put together in the '90s.

    Good Luck!
    "Give me a mandolin and I'll play you rock 'n' roll" (Keith Moon)

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  3. #27
    Registered User Murphy Slaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Amplification

    I've never liked pickups in a mandolin. Always used a mic, usually an SM57. Never understood why people have so much trouble mic-ing acoustic instruments.
    1933 Gibson A-00 (was Scotty Stoneman's)
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  4. #28
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Amplification

    They bring them to play in a Rock Band With a Drummer & electric Guitars./.
    writing about music
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  5. #29
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    Default Re: Amplification

    I have had success using the Myers Feather Pickup System, which is basically a small microphone that clips onto the mandolin: https://www.myerspickups.com/products/the-feather. I run that directly into a Schertler Giulia amplifier with a direct out to the mixer. It sounds very natural and I am able to better hear what I am playing. It is also easy to connect a volume pedal to the amplifier to provide a consistent volume for breaks.

    Alan

  6. #30

    Default Re: Amplification

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wright View Post
    Any EQ will be fine. What was your approach to using a Fishman bridge? Results depend heavily on the EQ/amplfication string, and also the performing context.
    Using any piezo pickup successfully requires impedance matching. The pickup signal should be fed into an input of at least 1M Ohms. I see that the Boss GE-7 has a 1M Ohm impedance, but I seem to recall that's not always been the case. Hence folks needing to resort to extreme settings to get anywhere near a decent tone. If the DOD EQ has a high enough input impedance it should be ok. I'm surprised that there has been no mention of DOD FX10. I've used them for years with instruments retrofitted with Martin Thinline undersaddle passive pickups. Bombproof and with an input impedance of 4M Ohm, simple tone control and volume useful for a boost. Originally made for acoustic instruments, I'm not sure if they are still available. They seem to have a cult following for electric guitarists as a clean volume boost, and second hand prices seem to reflect that. Before the FX 10 it was Yamaha GE-10M II that did the job. Old School!

  7. #31
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    Default Re: Amplification

    Sounds like you prefer acoustic to electric, as do I. That is why I play with those of like mind. I will play with an electric bass if I have to but NO
    ELECTRIC amplification on any thing else, and I much prefer a “real” bass

  8. #32
    Registered User Murphy Slaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Amplification

    Quote Originally Posted by mandroid View Post
    They bring them to play in a Rock Band With a Drummer & electric Guitars./.
    That's no problem with my acoustic rig...



    1933 Gibson A-00 (was Scotty Stoneman's)
    2003 Gibson J-45RW (ebony)
    2017 Gibson J-15

    The Murph Channel
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkomGsMJXH9qn-xLKCv4WOg

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  10. #33
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    Default Re: Amplification

    I sure appreciate all the thoughtful responses. I've gotten a better tone out of the MM50e using a borrowed DOD EQ with a reverse smile, and continue to read up on the DOD FX10, the Boss GE-7, the ToneDexter, and several other pedals mentioned here. If I could get the Baggs Venue to sound as good as the DOD, I'd switch to it for the lead boost. What I still haven't heard is anyone saying I can amplify my A4 with reasonable acoustic response at stage volume, so I'm likely to hold off for now. Regardless, I am continuing to learn lots from this and other threads on pickups.

    Someone off the forum suggested a Baggs Anthem - combo transducer and mic - but again, I'll have to be certain to chunk down that kind of cash.
    Jeff Shu
    the bo-stevens - Honky Tonk from Winston-Salem, NC
    Tupelo Crush - Alt Country/Americana

  11. #34
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Amplification

    DYN-M P-48, as it is phantom power dependent, is a bit less versatile
    than its dynamic , passive, brethren & the predecessor, the Dyn M ..

    I've even used the Impedance matching transformer made for dynamic mics,
    and plugged into guitar amps , their 1/4" TR jack has no phantom power..

    Like my flute playing friend does with his SM 58 Mic & Fender Tube guitar amp..


    ...
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    about architecture

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  13. #35
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Amplification

    " It takes one hell of a drummer to sound better than no drummer at all." Jazz legend Chet Baker

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  15. #36

    Default Re: Amplification

    Dear Polecat, I saw your note that "there were no commercially available mandolin amplifiers" . My company, Headway Music Audio has long produced pre-amplifiers with a Range Switch or pot ( high pass filter), which has a Mandolin/Violin setting, which rolls off below 200Hz, below the bottom string and makes a huge difference in clarity and freedom from feedback, boom or body handling noise. There are many other features including 3 and or 5 Band EQ, Tuneable Notch Filter, Phase Reverse, Ground Lift, Send and Return etc. The models are EDB-2 H.E and EDM-1 H.E or predecessors such as EDB-1 & EDB-2 going back 15+ years. We manufacture in the UK and Poland and have sold thousands of these. We supply these at one price including airmail Worldwide from : www.headwaymusicaudio.com

    We also do a very low feedback mandolin pickup in HE5/M.FEQ, active with Fixed EQ for Mandolin, but it requires a bone saddle fitted and these are popular in the UK and parts of Europe. The sound is extremely natural, even and clean, but direct, loud and problem free, needing little or no EQ. You could use these in a hard rock band. I appreciate that this approach will not suit everyone, but the sound is 1000% better and more natural than other options for mandolin at high volumes, such as solid body instruments.

  16. #37
    Quietly Making Noise Dave Greenspoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Amplification

    Some quick comments to the thread:

    On my wall is a photo of Levon (and Amy) Helms. He's on his Stiver, playing thru the older Fishman PROLBX300 Loudbox Performer. When you have someone decent running sound, this should be more than enough.

    The Baggs Venue is decent enough. I called it the special sauce for my Rigel. The Boss AD-10 kicked it off my board for lots of reasons. The Boss is, imo, orders of magnitude more robust...and I loved the Venue for years and never been a fan of Boss stompboxes. YMMV

    Glad to see the DOD line get its due. Great gear, especially the stuff produced when Tom Cram was the lead. It will be interesting to see what Cort does with the DOD-DigiTech line. I still have a "go board" of the reissue line that more than does the job. Since they're all analog, a daisy-chained OneSpot wall wart easily does the power work.

    On pickups in general: had a Rigel A natural retrofitted with the oem piezo, have had the Baggs Radius, and put a K&K on the 515 and run it through the AD-10. The K&K/AD-10 combo through my own older Loudbox sounds really good. Between the AD-10 and the amp I certainly have enough tone-shaping controls and can pretty easily dial in for the space. That said, nothing is easier than the El Rey. If I am feeling especially purist, the signal chain goes board just through a tuner, and I ride the Rivera's spring reverb and on-board gain. Mind you I have a board that does the job well for when I am feeling less than pure.
    Axes: Eastman MD-515 & El Rey; Eastwood S Mandola
    Amps: Fishman Loudbox 100; Rivera Clubster Royale Recording Head & R212 cab; Laney Cub 10

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