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Thread: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

  1. #1

    Default Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    Hi all. I am going to offer you a blind test of 6 different bowlback mandolins. I was having fun today playing them side by side and recording the results using Rode mini USB mic and Audacity with no added sound effects. I was playing the same one minute piece (my rendition of "Tango of Fire") in the same setting. Volume level has been adjusted on a final mix to be the same on all recordings.

    I don't want to reveal right now which mandolins I played not to distract your attention. Please judge the tone only, not my humble playing skills Please leave the comments with the numbers of mandolins playing in order of your preference. I will write which one is which sometime on Monday. Have fun.


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    I know nothing about bowlbacks. Just wanted to say that you make them all sound good.

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  5. #3
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    I feel that adjusting the volume to be the same on all recordings takes away one of the essential criteria for comparing mandolins. Volume is certainly a specific quality that helps define a mandolin's sonic performance as compared to the each of the other instruments.

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  7. #4

    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hudmister View Post
    I feel that adjusting the volume to be the same on all recordings takes away one of the essential criteria for comparing mandolins. Volume is certainly a specific quality that helps define a mandolin's sonic performance as compared to the each of the other instruments.
    Yes, in a concert environment, certainly. But in case of recording I wanted to elminate that variable and concentrate on tonal qualities of different instruments only.

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  9. #5

    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    They all sound really good so I found it really difficult to put them into an order of tone preference. . I have listened a few times and I think my favourite is no 1 (followed by 5 and 6):

    1 - sweet, full tone
    5 and 6 - full strong tone
    2 and 4 - bright/trebly, lively
    3 - nice balance

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  11. #6
    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    Mine is 5 and 6, but 4 was the most enjoyable, from the contrasted to number 3.
    1. was warm and rich.

    Very fine playing, many thanks for posting this.
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    Registered User Steve 2E's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    I’m not a bowl back aficionado, but for the record #3 is my favorite with #5 being the runner up. I’m looking forward to the big reveal!
    Thanks! And nice playing!

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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    That's a tough one - they all sound good to my ears. I would need to have the volume differences included to make a decision, although I understand why they volumes are all normalized.

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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    Thanks for a good ear training lesson. And for the chance to hear up close and personal mandos I would likely not else encounter. The length and complexities of the piece you chose were perfect, I think, for your purpose. Each of these sounded different to me in interesting ways -- better or worse, of course, is a matter of personal taste. Unmentioned variables include the type of strings on each and the plectrum you chose (the same for all six, I imagine) and how many visits to the καφενεíο between recordings. I do have have a couple preferences ... if you show me yours, I'll show you mine. Thanks, again.

    Joe

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    Registered User Jairo Ramos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    I love bowlbacks, their sound for me will always be that of the "mandolin" ... I liked them all, I couldn't put them in order, but number 5 fits my taste ...
    Music washes away from the soul the dust of every-day life. Auerbach.
    The rejection of 'the others' is a tragedy of the human being; If it comes from emigrants, an added horror!

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    3 - 5&4 (tie) - 6 - 2 - 1; I like lower overtones better, since I find some bowl-backs too "shrill."

    Interesting comparison.
    Allen Hopkins
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    Natl Triolian Dobro mando
    Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
    H-O mandolinetto
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    Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
    Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
    Flatiron 3K OM

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  23. #12
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    I only listened to the recording once. Even so, I really noticed, and most appreciated, #5. Rich in the bass and really clear and clean voices from A and E. That was fun. Thanks for sending it out.

    And, you played very well.
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    Registered User Jairo Ramos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    By the way, Victor, is that arrangement of "El Choclo" yours? when a mandolin player plays something so beautiful here on the forum, he risks being asked to share a copy of the arrangement ...
    Music washes away from the soul the dust of every-day life. Auerbach.
    The rejection of 'the others' is a tragedy of the human being; If it comes from emigrants, an added horror!

  26. #14

    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    Yes, it is mine, but since I play by ear and can't write music, alas, I have to disappoint you...

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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by vic-victor View Post
    Yes, it is mine, but since I play by ear and can't write music, alas, I have to disappoint you...

    Music washes away from the soul the dust of every-day life. Auerbach.
    The rejection of 'the others' is a tragedy of the human being; If it comes from emigrants, an added horror!

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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    Bowlbacks are beautiful instruments. They interest me because they are part of the mandolin family and have such a rich history. This looked like an interesting challenge so I gave it the one-time listen through. The first two didn't appeal to me. Once I hit #3, all the others were in comparison. So, my choice is 3, 5, 4, 6, 2, 1. Then, as I read through this thread, I realized my ranking matched Allen's at post #11. His response about the lower overtones nailed it for me, too. Thanks for taking the time to prepare and share this comparison. Looking forward to the great reveal.
    "If your memories exceed your dreams, you have begun to die." - Anonymous

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  31. #17
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    5, 3, 6, 1, 2, 4 for me and it isn't cast in stone, I liked them all and could easily change the order from one minute to the next. I can't wait to see what was what. I am already jonesing for another bowl-back. I dearly love my old Vega but would love a Ceccherini or Vinacci, not sure I spelled those correctly. Of course, that may change after I find out what these were.

    This youtube vid is very representative of how mine sounds which is funny as it is different from #5 I put down as my first choice tonight, and it is my point of reference for all bowbacks I hear. https://youtu.be/HyjehDw8brU
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

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    Registered User Louise NM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    3, 4, 5, 2, 6, 1. I might rank them differently tomorrow.

    Three had the most complex yet clear sound; number one had the least complex and a somewhat muddy sound with less resonance. Everything else is somewhere in between. I would say the top five were closer, with more difference between #1 and #6 than between #6 and #3.

    I'm curious to see what's what!

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  35. #19

    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    OK, many thanks for taking an interest in this blind test. It confirms to me that the beauty is not only in the eye of the beholder, but also, to a degree, in the ear Please find the photo of the mandolins in order of appearance left to right.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    No. 1 is 1916 Luigi Embergher No. 2 Orchestra model. Big volume, strong and powerful voice. A bit muffled bass when unplayed for over a week, which gets clearer after a while of playing. Good for concert setting.

    No 2 is a Puglisi, circa 1913, fluted Roman model based on Embergher No. 5. This one is very interesting, as it needs extensive playing in order to sound at it's best. It has a slightly shrill and nasal sound when unplayed for over 2 weeks and it gets considerably better after 2 to 3 hours of playing. It stays like that for 2-3 days and then goes to sleeping mode again gradually if unplayed. I didn't play it for a while and didn't have time to play it to wake it up.

    These two instruments prove (at least to myself) the theory of constantly playing the instruments in order for them to sound at their best. Don't want to open a can of worms here, I know some members are sceptical about this, but for me it is very clear. Once I am in the mood I am going to do a comparison recording of them in "Mode 2" after being played a lot.

    No. 3 is my recent acquisition, a fancy double top Umberto Ceccherini circa 1915. To me it has a loud and balanced tone, with nice bass and clear trebles. It had the most of my attention in the last two weeks, being a new baby.

    No. 4 is a 1970's Kiso Suzuki MR-200. Despite the "bad press" about factory-made Japanese instruments it is quite a decent mandolin. Not as refined, as far as tone is concerned, but loud and balanced, a good all rounder. Certainly not the one to be ashamed of. I wouldn't hesitate recommending it to anyone wanting to start a bowlback journey. It is actually listed in the Classifieds at the moment

    No. 5 is 1906 Luigi Embergher No 1 Orchestra model. It is a lovely mandolin that I play all the time. It is not the loudest in the volume department, but it has a very sweet voice with very clear trebles and singing bass. Perhaps it won't be the champion in the concert setting, but it is capable of expressing the subtle nuances of music it's more loud friends won't do as good. An ideal instrument for recordings.

    No. 6 is 1934 Fratelli Vinaccia. Loud and proud instrument. The loudest of them all. Good for concerts and playing in a band. Well balanced, with decent bass. Very nice instrument overall, but not as delicate as my other, higher model earlier Vinaccia that I no longer own was.

    I played the same pick, which is Pickboy mandolin. And the last, but not least, all mandolins are rosewood models.


    Thanks again, everyone!!!
    Last edited by vic-victor; May-31-2021 at 4:20am.

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  37. #20

    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    How interesting. Thanks for your fun and informative experiment. Yes, no 2 did sound brighter to my ears (slightly 'thinner') than no 1 and it's interesting that it needs 'playing in' to sound its best. My faves were 1 and 5 so maybe I need to add an Embergher to my musical bucket list! I just got my first bowlback from Ebay (maker unknown but probably a De Meglio) - is this how it starts...

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  39. #21
    Registered User Frankdolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    Very cool Victor! I guess I'm a Luigi Embergher fan because I 'm really liking 1 and 5. To me fuller, best tone and balance.

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  41. #22
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    I listened again this morning and like them in a different order but almost the same. I listened right after playing my Oldwave oval A. I wonder how that affects what we hear. But this morning it went 365124. 5 and 6 are interchangeable for position kind of a tie not the same but with just enough little things I like and dislike to kind of balance the choice out. But #3 really stand out to me this morning. I still don't care much for 4 not bad but not to my liking when there are much better tonal choices for me out there.

    Sadly, now I'm jonesing for a double top Ceccherini even more. Maybe I should plan on trying to build one of them when some other projects in the works are done. Too many projects, not enough time. I loved this comparison it was great but I would also like to hear them without the volume equalized. For me, that would be an important difference to consider as with the tone.


    Is it just me or do 5 and six look like they have big mustaches? That's what those pickguards remind me of.
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

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  43. #23
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    Yeah, I saw the mustaches, too. Pretty funny. I was curious how I would rank them visually compared to my rankings last night and I see that #3 is also my favorite to look at. However, I like the pickguard on #2 much better than the one on #3. Not being a bowlback person, I could easily be talked into #3.
    "If your memories exceed your dreams, you have begun to die." - Anonymous

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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    I came to this late and liked different instruments than others -- I liked 1 best with 5 a very close second, but i was judging on probably inferior speakers. I found that I decided my own likes based on how clear I felt the highs and lows were individually since most of the mids were acceptable. thanks for the chance to hear them all!
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  47. #25
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blind test of 6 different bowlbacks

    3 is almost too ornamented, almost but not quite, for my tastes but I wouldn't let that stop me! I like bling and no bling none of it really bothers me, it would have to be really over the top to make me think twice. Really over the top!
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

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