ii-V in E minor

[Perry]

F#-7b5 to B7

I just can't find a nice move on the mandolin with some good voice leading. On guitar this cadence lays out beautifully in several positions.

Any suggestions?

[Jim Bevan]

[Jim Bevan]

Jim's Rule of Thumb for figuring out 7th chords:
for example, Gmaj7: G B D F# G B D F#
In a two-octave arpeggio: play a note, skip a note, play a note, skip two notes, play a note, skip a note, play a note. Works for any inversion.

So, in this case, F#m7b5: A C E F# A C E F#
and B7: A B D# F# A B D# F#

[Jim Bevan]

In practical use, there are two exceptions to my Rule:

1. The third inversion of min75b's are awkward enough that I never bother with them.

2. I don't like the sound of the 7th being lower than the root in the maj7's, so I swap those notes.
So, my inversions for Gmaj7, for example, go:
G D B F#
B G D F# (instead of B F# D G)
D G F# B
G B F# D (instead of F# B G D)

[Perry]

That's perfect. Thanks!

[Perry]

This is perfect. Thanks. I don't believe any of the mandolin chord books I have voice the m7b5 this way.

[DavidKOS]

This is perfect. Thanks. I don't believe any of the mandolin chord books I have voice the m7b5 this way.

I've seen both good and bad chord voicings in mandolin books.

Another tip -

An F#m7b5 (F# A C E ) can be thought of as an Am (A C E ) chord over an F# bass.

Or as an Am6 chord, too. (A C E F#).

[ralph johansson]

for the f# halfdim I would use the notes c-e-a or c-e-b, followed, perhaps, by b-d#-a (in spite of the open a) but a lot depends on what comes after the ii-V and how the chords are used: rhythmically, percussively or held, for instance.

[Bill McCall]

for the f# halfdim I would use the notes c-e-a or c-e-b, followed, perhaps, by b-d#-a (in spite of the open a) but a lot depends on what comes after the ii-V and how the chords are used: rhythmically, percussively or held, for instance.

Yes, that works nice fingered as 577x to 476x to 457x(em).

Build your own, skip the books

[journeybear]

Build your own, skip the books

I like that. It's often how I roll, myself.

That's sort of how I ended up with this fingering for F#m: 6402 To make that F#m7: 6400* To make that F#mb5: 5400

Does that sound right? If so, then for B7 try 4102. Too much open string sound? Well ... see what you can do from there.

But if you want to stick with the open string sound, your choices for the resolve to Em are limited. 0223 and 0220 are easiest.

So all together: 5400 4102 0220 See if that works. I'll wager closed position chords will work better, as they often do in jazz/swing, but you never know till you try.


* © 1983 - But I give you permission

[DavidKOS]

I like that. It's often how I roll, myself.

That's sort of how I ended up with this fingering for F#m: 6402 To make that F#m7: 6400

And to make it F#m7b5, 5400

[journeybear]

I like 5400 4102 0223 more. It provides counterpoint with descending notes on the bottom string and ascending notes on the top string.

[Perry]

For those that want a challenge. Attached is Monk's Round Midnight in the mandolin and guitar friendly key of Em/G. Monk's original was in Eb. Lots of minor ii V's. PDF and JPEG below.

[Don Stiernberg]

minor ii-V-i's are often sounded with alterations (b5,#5,b9,#9) added to the dominant chord. This yields a cadence that sounds more minor, jazzlike, and chromatic..also suggests a different set of melodic possibilities to the soloist

for Em let's see I might go 5-7-9 on the low strings (F#mb5, no b7 but that's ok) the 8-7-9-8 (B7b9) or 8-7-10 (B7#5 a/k/a Baugmented) landing on Em or Em9
4-5-7 or 7-5-7(Em7) or 7-5-9 (Em9)

[Tim C.]

[Tim C.]

Here are all of the closed position ii-V-I/i patterns I use, one for each of the three triad shapes.