Breaking into Mandola...by mandolin?

[Joe K]

Thanks, all, for the great content here. I've become a habitual lurker, and now I have a question I haven't seen covered elsewhere.

My real love (for now at least) is tenor guitar in traditional CGDA tuning. Given that, I'm daydreaming about picking up the mandola to apply, extend, and learn more about the things I'm already working on.

It's tough to find mandolas I can try out, though, since there don't seem to be many anyplace and none in the small-city market where I live. I've gotten my hands on only two, and I like them, but it's hard to know. Online, I find I'm looking at mandolas that start around $1k. Those are "intermediate," mid-level ones, though, and -- in my dreams at least -- I'd want a better instrument if I get serious. I'd be willing to shell out what I need for something on the level of my much-loved Martin tenor guitar, but I don't want to do that until I have a sense of whether I'd enjoy mandola the way I imagine.

So, I've been thinking about going with a decent mandolin -- probably an Eastman MD 304 since I've found I enjoy the A-style oval-hole -- for its own sake but also as a kind of gateway drug to the mandola. I haven't enjoyed the GDAE tuning quite as much -- I have a cheap Rogue that I enjoy for letting me experiment but not for its sound -- but it's been a help in thinking about the music overall. I figure, if I like playing on a decent mandolin, I'll love playing on a good mandola and will know more of what I want in an expensive instrument I'll almost certainly have to order without playing it first.

Does any of that make sense, or am I missing something there? I'd appreciate any experiences and advice you can share.

[bbcee]

Hi Joe, I followed a similar path. After playing mandolin for a while, I got more & more curious about dolas, but wasn't sure if I could change over to CGDA. I got a funky French double-top instrument, and played it enough to know 1) I liked the timbre and 2) the "switch", such as it is, is no big deal - we're in fifths!. I sold that one and wound up getting a good price on an Eastman MDA815 that a music store was desperate to get rid of, and I use it all the time.

Although there are undoubtedly better mandolas out there, I'm happy with the Eastman - the neck and I get along great, fit & finish are good and it records well.

Getting Niles Hokkanen's (mandocrucian here in the Cafe) little book "A Mandola Sampler" helped me figure out where it fits in bluegrass/old-time. Lots of good advice in there.

I recently got a Flight Pathfinder electric uke (17" scale) to see if I can find a place for electric sounds as well. I like it best in CGDA tonally, anyway the G string doesn't intonate very well in GDAE.

No doubt more advice is coming your way, but I say go for it. It really broadened my horizons.

[allenhopkins]

You might want to peruse this current thread, and the CBOM forum generally.

You have a mandolin (well, a Rogue, which is kinda a mandolin), so you know how to get around on the fingerboard already. There are relatively inexpensive Pac-Rim mindolas by Trinity College and Gold Tone -- flat-tops designed for the Celtic music market, but decently made, suitable for trying out the alto scales and working out a role for the lower-pitched instrument.

I play a lot of mandola now, probably more than mandolin, especially when accompanying vocals. I also love to work out harmonies and counter-melodies to mandolins and violins. As stated above, if you are comfortable on a 5th-tuned instrument, you just have to "head transpose" chords. Remember, mandolin and mandola share three strings in common.

Good luck!

[pheffernan]

Does any of that make sense, or am I missing something there? I'd appreciate any experiences and advice you can share.

Perhaps start with a flattop to get more bang for your buck?

https://reverb.com/item/43863235-fla...bozeman-w-case

[journeybear]

Many years ago - over thirty, I think - I bought a mandola. I had been thinking about it for a while, as some songs I've written which have particular chord fingerings were in bad keys for my voice. One in particular pushed me toward this purchase, and I have subtitled it "the song that made me get a mandola." (It is indeed that good of a song, in my opinion, even as extravagant as that was.)

One day, while visiting my luthier, I saw one hanging on the wall and inquired about it. Turns out it belonged to someone I know, and was actually the better of the two he owned. He had to sell off some instruments in order to meet a house payment. He didn't want to sell the other one, as it was part of a matched set of mandolin, mandola, and mandocello. I had just received my tax refund, so a deal was struck.

It is a 1916 Gibson H-2, in very good shape (even after it's been in my possession all this time ), and is the first "collector's item" I've owned. It has Handel tuning pegs and the original pickguard and tailpiece. It came with a well-fitting hardshell case, and it was so resonant it always was still ringing when I put it away. It worked perfectly for the purpose intended, and was easy to adjust to, with a string length barely two inches longer than the mandolin. And it was all of $850 - a considerable amount, but far less than what it would be worth today.

I also have a tenor, a National steel Triolian. I was playing in a jug band at the time, and wanted a resonator mandolin to add to my sonic arsenal. Agin, my luthier was instrumental in this purchase. On another visit, there was a resonator mandolin on the wall, which was not for sale. But there was also this Triolian, which served the same purpose. It was more difficult to play, though, due to its much longer fretboard. My left hand is dedicated to the mandolin neck and fret placement, and while I can indeed play melodies on this, many chords are difficult if not impossible. It does work fine as a slide guitar, lying flat.

I mention all this by way of saying I understand - at least from my perspective - the impetus to acquire a mandola. I expect a fine mandola like mine would be too pricy for your proposed action, but if you take this leap of faith, I believe you will find it satisfactory, even rewarding. If you're not in a hurry and can take a little time to keep an eye out for a good mandola, I believe your effort will be rewarded. Good mandolas are out there, albeit not in the same numbers as mandolins; you just have to find one. I suggest you avoid cheap instruments, though. If it doesn't sound good, you won't enjoy playing it. A transitional instrument won't do you any favors; you're better off putting that money toward a destination instrument. It sounds to me like you already know you will enjoy a mandola, and might just need a little nudge in that direction. I hope this helps do that.

[Sue Rieter]

... it was so resonant it always was still ringing when I put it away...

Journeybear's mandola sounds like an exceedingly cool instrument. I feel a little jealous, I'll admit. I haven't got anything nearly as excellent as that, but I do have a Mid Mo M-15 flat top mandola that I got for a reasonable price. I didn't get it because I had a song in my head or anything, only because I thought it sounded really excellent, felt good in my hands, and I was intrigued by it. I'm a newbie and can't play it too well at this point, but I like it anyway and am glad to have it. It's a different and interesting voice and I like thinking about how playing it relates to playing mandolin.

[tmsweeney]

you can get mandolas at 15.5 inches or 16 inches, mine are 17 inch except the 25 h1 which is 16 inch.

I think part of an instrument qualifying as a mandola is the scale length being above the mandolin 12 inch.

I know others have purchased octaves and then caped on the 5th - to get a 2 for 1 instrument.

I'm not sure stringing a mandolin low is really going to give you mandola tone, fingering yes, but the stretches' are slightly longer on a true dola.
I would go goldtone or eastman or something like that if you don't want to spend a lot.

[journeybear]

Journeybear's mandola sounds like an exceedingly cool instrument.

It is. I'm well aware I got a good one, and have known I was lucky from the start. And I'm glad I had the chance to try it out in person, rather than having to take a chance on an online purchase. I've done that since, and have had only two less-than-perfect experiences, and only one of those required returning it.

But I don't feel qualified to offer advice. Saying "keep an eye out" isn't all that much help. My contribution is probably more pertinent to the experience part of the OP's question.

Here's the only youtube video I have of me playing my mandola. I'm not sure how well it works as an example of its sound. That's not the kind of presentation here. It was on the occasion of what would have been my brother's 64th birthday. And again, I used the mandola to correlate the chord fingerings and my voice, such as it is.

[Joe K]

Thanks, all. You've given me a lot to think about, but the summary seems to be that mandola is sufficiently different from mandolin that I should reconsider the strategy. I may want to try some basic mandolin for its own sake -- I have so much to learn in so many directions that transposing keys seems a good set of lessons. Still, if the goal is to keep playing in CGDA across tenor guitar, tenor banjo, and mandola, then I think I'm hearing that the straighter line is to take the leap of faith and go with a mandola, a decent one if that's all I can find or a very good one if it comes up. (I have been eying the red flatiron; it seems on the border of good and very good, especially since I think I'd prefer a teardrop/oval anyway.)

Journeybear also has me humming "When I'm 64." I think I'll give that video a couple listens today.

[journeybear]

Thank you. I think I should issue some sort of disclaimer, in the event of any detrimental effects developing, in which case you're on your own. But do as you wish, though it's a good idea to proceed with caution.

Good luck with your search! I think it's a fine idea, building up a collection of instruments with the same tuning. You'll be able to switch easily among them, and not have to do the mental translation of keys, as was mentioned earlier. If you can't try out instruments in person, try to find soundclips so you can hear how each sounds. Youtube is a great resource for this.

[pheffernan]

Still, if the goal is to keep playing in CGDA across tenor guitar, tenor banjo, and mandola, then I think I'm hearing that the straighter line is to take the leap of faith and go with a mandola, a decent one if that's all I can find or a very good one if it comes up. (I have been eying the red flatiron; it seems on the border of good and very good, especially since I think I'd prefer a teardrop/oval anyway.)

This one might be even better:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/185545#185545

[sgarrity]

From a former mandola owner.....Get a good ff-hole mandolin and a good guitar. Everything after that is BS. You're welcome!

[Sheila Lagrand]

Journeybear's mandola sounds like an exceedingly cool instrument. I feel a little jealous, I'll admit. I haven't got anything nearly as excellent as that, but I do have a Mid Mo M-15 flat top mandola that I got for a reasonable price. I didn't get it because I had a song in my head or anything, only because I thought it sounded really excellent, felt good in my hands, and I was intrigued by it. I'm a newbie and can't play it too well at this point, but I like it anyway and am glad to have it. It's a different and interesting voice and I like thinking about how playing it relates to playing mandolin.

It sounds as if your mandola engages you enough that you will enjoy spending time with her, Sue. I suspect your fluency will improve quickly. Enjoy!

[pheffernan]

If your heart is set on an archtop, you could do worse than this one and sell the Calton to stay close to budget:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/185592#185592

[lizziebird]

Hi Joe K,

I have perhaps a somewhat similar path as you.

My first mandolin was a Rogue. I absolutely loved it. I had played fiddle before and found myself finger picking my fiddle like a mandolin and thought, what the heck, I'll get a cheap mandolin to try it out. Super fun!

I had my Rogue for several years and then, while searching Craigslist for an upgrade, found a Trinity College octave mandolin and decided to try that. It has a beautiful rich voice and great for trying some new playing styles. Because it's so much larger than the regular mandolins, I find myself playing it very differently, and I like playing it, but it definitely isn't my go-to instrument, except for certain tunes which I find sound really great on it.

Then I managed to save up some more money and recently got an Eastman mandolin. After playing the Rogue for so long and getting used to that sound, the Eastman sounds absolutely fantastic, and has become my all-time favorite instrument.

Right before the pandemic, I went to a local music store that happened to have about 10 mandolins hanging around, and I was able to try each of them. It really is worth while to try out different instruments, they all have their own unique sound and feel. So sure, of course if you have an opportunity, try before you buy. That said, I once bought a cheap fiddle from ebay and liked it much better than my more expensive fiddle. Go figure.

If you are having fun with the tenor guitar, I'm sure you would have a lot of fun with the Mandola. And if you ever get a chance to upgrade your Rogue, I'd recommend that as well.