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Thread: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

  1. #1

    Default Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

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ID:	194895My grandfathers mandoline, now i own it and try to find out more about it, Granpa got it when he was a young boy short after WW2 but he said it was already old and used when he got it. if somebody knows more about the manufacturer … the building year …. Please share any informationClick image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Burnout; Jun-26-2021 at 6:28pm. Reason: Pictures

  2. #2
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

    This is very interesting, Burnout.

    Of the 500+ or so Italian mandolin makers or labels I have examples of in my files, I admit I have not come across one by Salvatore Narcisi.
    So for me this is an important addition.

    Some of the other fellows who help document these mandolins, Jim Garber, Victor, Dave Hynds, John Maddock might have come across one but
    this is new to me.

    Catania was an important hub of instrument manufacture before WW2...sending out mandolins under labels from local makers as well as a lot of
    other mandolins to be labeled by dealers on the Italian mainland. Ofter pretending to have been the makers themselves.

    Catania was heavily damaged during the war and many of the pre-war instrument makers did not survive.
    But some very important ones did and others continue the local tradition to this day.

    My hunch is is that your nonno is correct and that 'it was already old....' when he got it. My guess would be from the '10s or '20s, perhaps earlier, given some of the design features miming the very influential style of the Vinaccia mandolins from Napoli as well as the type of rosewood / palisander used for the mandolin bowl.

    The graphic design of the label also appears to be quite old...
    The tuners also appear from that same era. Though it appears that one set of them is set in place backwards...perhaps it is a replacement.

    It is a modest instrument, but you can tell from the quality of the rosewood that was available then, that even such instruments can be extraordinarily beautiful.
    And surely this had what our friend here, Martin Jonas, so wonderfully puts: the "shimmering sound" of the Italian bowlback mandolin.

    It appears to be intact and crack free, though obviously needs some repair and attention. The key factor for its future playability will be the condition of its neck.

    Can you post some more photos of the mandolin, preferably some side angle views and perhaps some angling a view up and down the neck?
    They would help us all get a better sense of its overall condition.

    I wish I could be more specific, but Salvatore Narcisi is new to me, which is delightful surprise. Hopefully uno dei nostri altri amici will weigh in with some more specific information on Sig. Narcisi.

    "Fu" by the way, suggests that Salvatore is the son of Paolo, who was deceased at the time of the label. Whether Paolo was also a mandolin maker is a tantalizing speculation.

    Thanks for posting!

    Mick
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  4. #3

    Default Re: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

    thanks a lot brunello97,

    here are some more detailed pictures
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    Default Re: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

    I'd comfortably place this mandolin in the 19th century. The string attachment plate having only four posts is early, and the screws attaching it to the instrument are remarkably primitive in appearance. Tuners mismatched in style and location of gearing, with appearance of one side having been replaced quite some time ago. The probably unfinished topwood suitably age-darkened, the considerable wear on the fretboard, the quality of the rosewood bowl, all point to age, heavy usage, and the desire of the owner(s) to maintain and play what was originally an instrument made for a player, unlike so many that were mere "mandolin-shaped objects" created as tourist souvenirs.

    Aside from the ravages of time, the instrument seems restorable; neck joint looks unstressed, top free from major issues. Merely as a matter of familial sentiment, under similar circumstances I'd certainly find a qualified luthier to do the job. While the cost of restoration to playability would exceed the market value of the mandolin, the opportunity to play my grandfather's antique instrument would make the expense worthwhile, and it would also honor the memory and experience of the several generations of previous owners, who put effort into keeping it able to sing.

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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob A View Post
    I'd comfortably place this mandolin in the 19th century. The string attachment plate having only four posts is early, and the screws attaching it to the instrument are remarkably primitive in appearance. ...... The probably unfinished topwood suitably age-darkened, the considerable wear on the fretboard, the quality of the rosewood bowl, all point to age, heavy usage, and the desire of the owner(s) to maintain and play what was originally an instrument made for a player, unlike so many that were mere "mandolin-shaped objects" created as tourist souvenirs.
    Great observations, Bob!

    Mick
    Last edited by brunello97; Jun-28-2021 at 9:23am.
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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

    Looking at one of the pics, I wondered if the headstock had been cracked off; looking at another, it seems that the headstock was grafted on to the end of the neck, rather than both carved from a single piece of wood -- definite line between them.

    Is this common with instruments from these sources?
    Allen Hopkins
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    Default Re: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

    On examining the neck joints of a few of my old bowlbacks, it appears to me that the neck/peghead construction is likely a graft. Early on in my bowlback search, I rec'd and returned a fine old mandolin to the seller in France, because of this construction peculiarity, the nature of which led me to believe it had been damaged. That instrument, and a number of others that passed through my hands, had veneer overlays covering the length of the neck, which likely served at least two purposes; to cover the graft, which is likely unattractive, and to strengthen that joint, by applying a layer of wood over it with grain running in a different direction from either of the two joined pieces. Additionally, the veneer could provide a cosmetic cover of attractive wood - often rosewood - which would relieve the luthier from having to use an attractive, and presumably more expensive, piece of wood for the neck.

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  13. #8

    Default Re: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob A View Post
    I'd comfortably place this mandolin in the 19th century.
    Looks more like 20C to me, perhaps turn of the century the earliest.

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    Default Re: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob A View Post
    On examining the neck joints of a few of my old bowlbacks, it appears to me that the neck/peghead construction is likely a graft. Early on in my bowlback search, I rec'd and returned a fine old mandolin to the seller in France, because of this construction peculiarity, the nature of which led me to believe it had been damaged. That instrument, and a number of others that passed through my hands, had veneer overlays covering the length of the neck, which likely served at least two purposes; to cover the graft, which is likely unattractive, and to strengthen that joint, by applying a layer of wood over it with grain running in a different direction from either of the two joined pieces. Additionally, the veneer could provide a cosmetic cover of attractive wood - often rosewood - which would relieve the luthier from having to use an attractive, and presumably more expensive, piece of wood for the neck.
    Nearly all Italian bowlbacks, with the exception of the Roman models, where the neck and peghead is one piece, have veneered neck.

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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

    Bob and Victor are right on about Italian bowlback neck construction. The spliced joint between neck and head is very common.
    Some that I have owned have rightly been made of softwood, rather than the hardwoods we take for granted from the Chicago / NY / Boston makers.

    Sometimes we see some cracking or de-lamination of the veneer around the neck joint that can make folks worry about that joint altogether.
    I'm not sure just how much structural integrity some of the paper thin neck veneers offer, but likely some.
    Must be a fiddly bit of cutting and gluing to laminate onto a tapering curved profile surface.

    I've rarely seen a warped neck on a bowlback mandolin, usually deformation of the top leads to any neck misalignent.

    Also interesting is that the neck block is typically carved in one piece along with the neck....which is again different from US makers.
    But that makes resetting the neck a difficult if not Quixotic task.

    (Not sure, Victor, if the Romans had an integral neck block, too, but I think so.)

    It makes me realize that the 'volute' feature once common at the transition from neck to headstock on old Martin (and other) bowlbacks was a keen way of reinforcing this location.

    Mick
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  18. #11
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

    I don't have anything in my files either, Mick. I did find this flatback on a Romanian site but the copy below seems to refer to other mandolins.

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  20. #12
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salvstore Narcisi fu Paolo

    There looks to be some label inside that mandolin, Jim, but it doesn't resemble the one in the Narcisi at all. Nor does the mandolin.

    The combination of the fretboard end, soundhole, droopy scratchplate and cock-eyed bridge do suggest an interesting diagram
    for a new emoji to use around here: "What is this thing?"

    Mick
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