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Thread: No love for old Martins

  1. #26
    Joe B mandopops's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    I don’t recall if Mr. Vicari & I ever spoke about which Mandolin he used in the movie. The one in the clip does appear to have block inlays. He did have an D’Angelico Mandolin, it was a 2 point oval. I remember it was a sunburst, but that was some time ago. It was in disrepair the first time he pulled it out. Then he took it to D’Aquisto to fix. Jimmy was his go to guy. I’m sure he treated Mr. V as royalty. When he got it back, for a while he’d play at our lessons, & he’d let me play it. Quite a thrill.
    Yes, Mr. V was more than well acquainted with D’Angelico. He also had a D’Angelico arch top Guitar. I have an autographed photo of him playing it. He could play Jazz style, like sitting next to Eddie Lang or a Gypsy Jazz player. He also played Classical Guitar & Tenor Banjo. To call him competent is a vast understatement. I never heard him play Violin, but he said although he considered Mandolin his 1st instrument, his 1st formal training was on Violin. I believe he was a first Violinist with a Sicilian Orch as an early teen.
    Getting back on topic, he did love his Martin. I believe it went into semi retirement, after a while.
    Viva Vicari!
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    Last edited by mandopops; Jul-03-2021 at 8:13am. Reason: Grammer
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  3. #27
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    You might be right about that being Sig. Vicari's D'Angelico, Pops.

    While the pickguard doesn't quite look D'A, you can see the block inlays and headstock design in the attached still from the Godfather DVD.

    You can almost catch a glimpse of the tailpiece as well, which doesn't look like it pulled in from Nazareth.
    Can't really get a read on a sunburst from these photos.

    I certainly enjoy hearing your recollections of your lessons and time with GV.

    You wrote: ".....I'm sure he treated him like royalty...."

    Well, yeah!

    Mick
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  5. #28
    Registered User Louise NM's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    You can almost catch a glimpse of the tailpiece as well, which doesn't look like it pulled in from Nazareth.
    You win.

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  7. #29
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Returning to the original premise of the thread, C F Martin was a pretty successful builder of their canted-top flat-back mandolins. According to Longworth's book, they made 12,955 Style A's alone between 1914 and 1973, with a peak production of 734 in 1920 -- one year after my Style A was built. That Martin mandolins aren't seen as archetypical in the way that 1915-1930 Gibson A-models are, is largely due to current taste in mandolins, "bluegrass emphasis" and preference for the arch-top, f-hole sound. Since the huge majority of mandolins on the market now are Asian-made, and the Asian builders tend to make what's most popular in the US, you see a raft of Gibson F-5 and A-50 "clones" around now, not so much Martin Style A's.

    Martin canted-top mandolins are immaculately constructed, and designed, IMHO, to be the "successors" of the bowl-backs Martin and other companies made previously. They sound quite similar, and have the same bend in the top, but are much easier to build without the ribbed bowls, and are quite a bit less ornamented.

    I wouldn't consider Martin's mandolins as failures; a company that builds mandolins in the tens of thousands over an 80-year period has compiled a significant history. That you don't see as many being played now -- and that Martin got out of the mandolin business in the 1970's -- is attributable to a large extent, to the changing role of the instrument in American music. Martin stopped making ukuleles; now they're making them again. Could they make mandolins again? Could the mandolin "resurge" in popularity, and draw Martin and other instrument makers into the market? Hell, anything's possible.

    C F Martin has demonstrated quite a bit of agility in staying current in the marketplace; their proliferation of guitar models, use of alternative materials (cf. my "Formica" Little Martin guitar), re-introduction of ukes, and entry into the mid-range guitar market, have apparently kept them profitable through the recent shifts in demand for acoustic instruments. I like my Style A, now over a century old, and feel that Martins have a secure place in mandolin history, if not perhaps in the current marketplace.
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  9. #30
    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    How about this mandola in the classifieds? Well out of my league, but looks pretty darned nice. Built the same year my Mom was born.

    Sheila, could this be a good addition for you ?

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  11. #31
    Every day is a gift. Sheila Lagrand's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sue Rieter View Post
    How about this mandola in the classifieds? Well out of my league, but looks pretty darned nice. Built the same year my Mom was born.

    Sheila, could this be a good addition for you ?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Well, Sue, that mandola is indeed gorgeous. Out of my league, too, I'm afraid--especially since we have been frequent visitors at our vet's office with a sick pup for the past 10 days or so.

    That said, yesterday I did order a little oldie that I came across online, though nothing with a distinguished pedigree like Gibson or Martin.
    Phoebe, my 2021 Collings MT mandolin
    Dolly, my 2021 Ibanez M522 mandolin
    Louise, my 193x SS Maxwell mandolin
    Fiona, My 2021 GSM guitar-bodied octave resonator mandolin
    Charlotte, my 2016 Eastman MDO 305 octave mandolin
    And Giuliana, my 2002 Hans Schuster 505 violin, Nehenehe, my 2021 Aklot concert ukulele,
    Annie, my 2022 Guild M-140 guitar, Joni, my 1963 Harmony 1215 Archtone archtop guitar,
    Yoko, my ca. 1963 Yamaha Dynamic No.15 guitar, and Rich, my 1959 husband.

  12. #32
    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheila Lagrand View Post
    That said, yesterday I did order a little oldie that I came across online, though nothing with a distinguished pedigree like Gibson or Martin.
    ???

    (If I can't indulge my own MAS, at least I can participate vicariously in other peoples' )



    PS. Hope your buddy is feeling better soon

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  14. #33
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: No love for old Martins?

    It's a tough crowd, here ..
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  15. #34
    Every day is a gift. Sheila Lagrand's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sue Rieter View Post
    ???

    (If I can't indulge my own MAS, at least I can participate vicariously in other peoples' )



    PS. Hope your buddy is feeling better soon
    First the little buddy: Poppy has had a cough for about 2 weeks now. Most serious causes have been ruled out, so that's good, but codeine and steroids hardly feel like a permanent solution. And the other two dogs are genuinely puzzled by her coughing. It would be funny if it weren't causing her distress.

    Now then. I bought this, but she's not here yet.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Phoebe, my 2021 Collings MT mandolin
    Dolly, my 2021 Ibanez M522 mandolin
    Louise, my 193x SS Maxwell mandolin
    Fiona, My 2021 GSM guitar-bodied octave resonator mandolin
    Charlotte, my 2016 Eastman MDO 305 octave mandolin
    And Giuliana, my 2002 Hans Schuster 505 violin, Nehenehe, my 2021 Aklot concert ukulele,
    Annie, my 2022 Guild M-140 guitar, Joni, my 1963 Harmony 1215 Archtone archtop guitar,
    Yoko, my ca. 1963 Yamaha Dynamic No.15 guitar, and Rich, my 1959 husband.

  16. #35
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Sheila: what does the headstock logo say?
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  18. #36
    Every day is a gift. Sheila Lagrand's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Sheila: what does the headstock logo say?
    "SS Maxwell/ Chicago, IL"
    Phoebe, my 2021 Collings MT mandolin
    Dolly, my 2021 Ibanez M522 mandolin
    Louise, my 193x SS Maxwell mandolin
    Fiona, My 2021 GSM guitar-bodied octave resonator mandolin
    Charlotte, my 2016 Eastman MDO 305 octave mandolin
    And Giuliana, my 2002 Hans Schuster 505 violin, Nehenehe, my 2021 Aklot concert ukulele,
    Annie, my 2022 Guild M-140 guitar, Joni, my 1963 Harmony 1215 Archtone archtop guitar,
    Yoko, my ca. 1963 Yamaha Dynamic No.15 guitar, and Rich, my 1959 husband.

  19. #37
    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    That looks fun! I had the same question as Jim.


    On your dog, codeine and steroids sound like bandaids. Hoping they have ruled out valley fever ....

  20. #38
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheila Lagrand View Post
    "SS Maxwell/ Chicago, IL"
    That brand appears on guitars and ukes that I take to be circa the 30's but doesn't show up in the Mugwumps Encyclopedia. I'm sure it was a private label for somebody and not an actual manufacturer. I think your mandolin may be a Harmony or Regal product as it's almost like a copy of the Kay body style but not quite there. That headstock shape was used by different manufacturers. Nice catch.

    Let's see if Jim has a catalog page to prove me right or wrong.

    https://jedistar.com/s-s-maxwell/
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  22. #39
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    That brand appears on guitars and ukes that I take to be circa the 30's but doesn't show up in the Mugwumps Encyclopedia. I'm sure it was a private label for somebody and not an actual manufacturer. I think your mandolin may be a Harmony or Regal product as it's almost like a copy of the Kay body style but not quite there. That headstock shape was used by different manufacturers. Nice catch.

    Let's see if Jim has a catalog page to prove me right or wrong.

    https://jedistar.com/s-s-maxwell/
    That link above does mention Targ & Dinner and I have some pages with Kay and Harmony instruments but none with that particular mandolin. I have two examples in my jpeg files of that exact shape under Regal listing but am not sure if it is actually labelled as such or just a guess from eBay sellers. I don't see that in Carlin's book either.
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  24. #40
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    I didn't see Targ & Dinner in Mugwumps either. I'm guessing they were a distributor in the Chicago area.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  26. #41
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    One of the comments in the link references a "Richter Manufacturing Company" in Chicago and insists they were a big player.

    "SS Maxwell was one of the brand names for instruments used by Chicago Distributors Targ & Dinner they registered it in 1931. They used a number of the Chicago Makers including the ones that were big at the time, (as big as Harmony and Regal) but not so well known now like the Richter Mfg Co.and Globe Musical Instrument Co and most of the instruments they made are wrongly classified as being made by Kay Regal or Harmony now....."


    Here's a link to the webpage on Richter.

    Seems to be some ongoing debate about the company's role.

    The blues museum in Clarksdale, MS has a pretty wide range of obscure labeled guitars in its collection. I recall seeing at least one Maxwell there as the name made the obvious connection to Chicago.

    Don't recall seeing a Richter, but the name didn't likely stick. They might have an online catalog of their collection somewhere but I didn't find one in a short look.

    Mick
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  28. #42
    Every day is a gift. Sheila Lagrand's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Mick, Mike, Jim, and Sue,
    Thanks for your interest, information, and comments. Once she's in hand I'll post a few more photos.
    Phoebe, my 2021 Collings MT mandolin
    Dolly, my 2021 Ibanez M522 mandolin
    Louise, my 193x SS Maxwell mandolin
    Fiona, My 2021 GSM guitar-bodied octave resonator mandolin
    Charlotte, my 2016 Eastman MDO 305 octave mandolin
    And Giuliana, my 2002 Hans Schuster 505 violin, Nehenehe, my 2021 Aklot concert ukulele,
    Annie, my 2022 Guild M-140 guitar, Joni, my 1963 Harmony 1215 Archtone archtop guitar,
    Yoko, my ca. 1963 Yamaha Dynamic No.15 guitar, and Rich, my 1959 husband.

  29. #43
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Bill Smith has a Richter labeled Maxwell guitar in the classifieds: https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/172750#172750
    Jim

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  31. #44
    Registered User Steve 2E's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    I’m not sure where this thread is heading, but I have love. I’ll be driving through Nazareth tomorrow. Unfortunately the museum is closed and there are no factory tours, but they are still building instruments. I know they gave up on mandolins quite a while ago, but I’m still gonna give a big happy wave when I go by!

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  33. #45
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Very cool diversions. That's a cool new instrument. Definitely one I haven't seen before.

    As to Martin, there have been a few times when I was tempted on a Martin A. Just haven't done it yet. Ended up getting my latest Strad-O-Lin instead.

    And as to the Godfather mandolin, if my memory serves, it used to be on display in a baby carriage at a music store/museum on Long Island. Saw it 30 years ago. Seems that Mike E. may have confirmed it here at least a decade ago when I first joined. That store also had a Hendrix Strat from Manny's with the original receipt. And that's about all I remember about the place. We did stop at the Martin factory, but either missed, or didn't have time to stick around for the tour. Did see the small museum, Mike Longworth and went to the 1833 shop in the original factory building.
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  34. #46
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins

    There is an "anniversary" model Martin, to my eye rather garish in its bling, for sale (at a very high price) once again in the Classifieds.

    For which I have no love.

    I do wish the owner good fortune in selling it, though.
    My hunch is that it will take that to find a new home.

    Mick
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  35. #47
    Teacher, repair person
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins

    Yeah, that one's been floating around for years. One of the sellers who does most of their advertising on forums like this had it first, then apparently traded or sold it to Carter's. http://www.cartervintage.com/collect...83-martin-ak-2

    If it was priced lower, it probably would have sold a long time ago. Pre-war style E's go for less, and you can find a nice style C for a third of the current asking price.
    Me, if I was going to buy a pearl trimmed Martin, I would want it to be in Brazilian rosewood.

  36. #48
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    ....
    Me, if I was going to buy a pearl trimmed Martin, I would want it to be in Brazilian rosewood.
    That's what I know.

    Rosewood back Martin As should rightly elicit mucho amor.

    Mick
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  37. #49
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: No love for old Martins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Platt View Post
    ...Seems that Mike E. may have confirmed it here at least a decade ago when I first joined...
    Twasn't me, it might have been my brother from another mother James Garber.
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  39. #50

    Default Re: No love for old Martins

    I've only played a modest number of mandolins but based on that experience I consider Martins to be nice-sounding instruments that have an open, non-assertive sound compared to many Gibsons which are assertive, driving, and punchy. The bent-top Martins seem clear but relatively quiet and restrained. Given a choice, this sound, nice as it is, is to many a second choice, not the top preference. I've had the opportunity to buy many, but have never found one that really compelled me sonically, even though I like the simple modest build and simple appointments very much.

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