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Thread: Any information on this Carlo Lorenzo bowl back mandolin?

  1. #1

    Default Any information on this Carlo Lorenzo bowl back mandolin?

    Hello everyone,

    Just wondered if anyone had any information on this Carlo Lorenzo bowl back mandolin that I have.

    Images here:
    https://ibb.co/D1W5pk2
    https://ibb.co/dkRGYzT
    https://ibb.co/Bc2bsTR
    https://ibb.co/h8KDMbn
    https://ibb.co/QCNDGq6

    I haven't got the slightest idea on its age/value/collectability etc.

    Any info would be greatly appreciated!

    Many thanks.

  2. #2
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any information on this Carlo Lorenzo bowl back mandolin?

    From the few pictures you've provided, your mandolin appears to be in fairly good cosmetic condition for its age.
    Has it been kept in a case?

    While the Carlo Lorenzo label suggests an address in Napoli, a few key things suggest to me a Sicilian, like Catania origin of the mandolin.
    The wide grain spruce on the top, the farfalla scratchplate and slightly crude soundhole inlay.

    Not that the Catanese couldn't make excellent mandolins, of which we have seen many. We do feel pretty confident that many, many MOR mandolins sold in mainland shops or exported to the UK or France, were made in Sicily.

    A practice that had its corollary here in the States when some of the bigger instrument companies would make mandolins to be sold under other...often local shops...labels.

    I know that might not add up to a smoking gun in terms of its Sicilian origin. It might have been made in lesser shop in Napoli, but I kind of doubt it, and it wouldn't really make much difference in regards to your inquiries.

    So to address your questions....

    Age: My guess would be sometime between 1895 and 1905
    Value: That would be totally dependent on its playability...and a function of the condition of the neck, which is hard to tell from the photos. A good side photo would help.

    If the neck is in in good playable condition, the mandolin might be worth $3-400. Maybe more if it intonates properly. Carlo Lorenzo is not a 'name brand' but he did run a musical instrument shop in a nice part of town.

    So that label doesn't add value in and of itself, but a playable Italian mandolin, even a MOR one, is a delightful thing to have. Even on these more modest instruments, they have the "shimmering sound" that is very appealing. The fret spacing can be muy sketchioso though, and so the intonation can be dicey. If the action is in good shape and the intonation is correct you might double the $$ I noted above.

    Collectability: Not likely a museum piece so as to be valuable outside its playability. It looks to be in good cosmetic condition and the rosewood used for the bowl and veneer is very nice. But there are a lot of these around in unplayable condition if aesthetics alone are to be considered.

    Post some more side and side angle images if you can so we can make an estimate of the neck angle / action / playability. That will be the key to its value. These Italian bowlback mandolins are very difficulty to repair an out of position neck. So if you've got one in good shape, fair play to you!

    Mick
    Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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  4. #3

    Default Re: Any information on this Carlo Lorenzo bowl back mandolin?

    Thank you so much for your time in responding to me. That information is very much appreciated and useful!

    I have taken a few more (30 oops!) photos of side profiles, looking up the neck etc. I'm a guitarist mainly and the intonation moving up the frets seems to be reasonable but I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking/listening for when it comes to a mandolin of this age especially!

    https://ibb.co/fCG83q5
    https://ibb.co/Y3yZrNW
    https://ibb.co/vXyz0kw
    https://ibb.co/gdbPX3L
    https://ibb.co/KhMzdF8
    https://ibb.co/YcTW6X2
    https://ibb.co/BZNBDd5
    https://ibb.co/19cyfPh
    https://ibb.co/dGP50R5
    https://ibb.co/0K4yzw9
    https://ibb.co/kcDpRhZ
    https://ibb.co/1vmpQGG
    https://ibb.co/D1KcQvd
    https://ibb.co/wYqJHwJ
    https://ibb.co/zsL7xVH
    https://ibb.co/tLBQZSH
    https://ibb.co/6HW7sSj
    https://ibb.co/ZBxVjkS
    https://ibb.co/jfcMSkr
    https://ibb.co/L8XNXkW
    https://ibb.co/gZtv3BL
    https://ibb.co/54cWhj1
    https://ibb.co/zVbLjL4
    https://ibb.co/Rj8YK5Z
    https://ibb.co/zV4zD6Y
    https://ibb.co/pvh1vdF
    https://ibb.co/Czr1Lj9
    https://ibb.co/3m1LNx6
    https://ibb.co/DMgDMM6
    https://ibb.co/S7Tf7J6

    Sorry for the abundance of photos. I'm not sure of the best angles that you might be looking for. Tried to get a ruler measurement from fretboard to string too.

    It has a very long sustain when strummed wihh open strings (approx 13 seconds). The bowl seems to resonante very nicely indeed.

    There are a few areas of movement (possibly not the correct word?) such as the nut, as photographer, but this could be normal or due to the age. A few small bits of damage to some of the tuning holes on the headstock too. A couple of other marks but otherwise a lovely looking piece.

    Once again, thank you kindly for your response. Very helpful indeed! 🙏

  5. #4

    Default Re: Any information on this Carlo Lorenzo bowl back mandolin?

    I've recorded some audio of the instrument. My sincerest apoligies to every mandolin player that has ever lived! I have probably very much butchered it in the eyes of an esteemed player.

    https://sndup.net/3f38

    I tried a basic G C D progression. I also tried to tune it (probably incorrectly!). I "played" the chords, followed by the chords arpeggiated and then the open strings. Played with fingernails also as I couldn't find the mandolin plectrum. Hopefully it is somewhat useful though and at least means that you can hear the instrument.

    Once again, apologies for my shoddy playing skills!!

  6. #5
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any information on this Carlo Lorenzo bowl back mandolin?

    No apologies necessary. With the terrible action on this mandolin I don't think anyone here could play it, sad to say. It looks like the bridge is in the correct position, but likely the neck joint is either loose or the top has some sinkage around that point. It is possible to fix it but, depending on where you live, there may not be anyone skilled enough or willing to do it for a reasonable price. This is not a highly desirable mandolin at best—most bowlbacks are not, despite our group's enthusiasm. You could take it to a luthier who understands mandolins or possibly even lutes or Greek bouzoukis and get a sense of what it will cost. However, if you are looking to sell it, it doesn't look very playable at this moment, so Mick's valuation above is way too high (as he did note about the condition).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Jim

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  7. #6

    Default Re: Any information on this Carlo Lorenzo bowl back mandolin?

    Thanks for taking the time to reply, Jim. Your time is apreciated.

    I have contacted a Polish luthier in Manchester, UK (I'm in the Midlands of the UK) who seems to have a specialism in mandolins. Sent the photos to see if he can provide any more insight/cost to repair etc.

    It's a beautiful instrument either way, playable or not. Even just the history of the instrument is enough for me to be contented. I find it fascinating that instruments can survive so many years, travel around the world and each mark bares with it history and a story of each player.

    Thank you again.

  8. #7
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any information on this Carlo Lorenzo bowl back mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    ...it doesn't look very playable at this moment, so Mick's valuation above is way too high (as he did note about the condition).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Indeed. So hard to tell from a single front-one photo. The side view with ruler is downright scary.

    FWIW I'm adjusting my evaluation down by a significant margin.
    Maybe $25-50 for an interior decorator or opera set designer.

    There I was getting myself all excited.

    But it's all about the neck.

    Best of luck with your luthier. If he or she has a plan on how to deal with this neck issue, please guide the luthier to the MC so we can observe the process.

    Mick
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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    '12 Stetson Open Road
    '06 Bialetti expresso maker
    '14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig

  9. #8

    Default Re: Any information on this Carlo Lorenzo bowl back mandolin?

    Thank you. I'll definitely keep you updated on any path that I may take with it. The history is still fascinating to me and it'll likely stay with my collection of instruments - albeit a non playable one!

    Thank you 😊

  10. #9
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any information on this Carlo Lorenzo bowl back mandolin?

    At the very least it could be a loose brace and may only require gluing, clamping and them checking the bridge and nut for the proper playing action. If that is all it would probably be worth fixing. If major surgery then we will see. Of course if you calculate sentimental value then that is different.
    Jim

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