There has got to be something better than Tabledit, right?

[MartP]

Thanks Chris. Can this be used for mandocello? It seems to be for guitar . . . but I've only watched the video so far?

[tuhker]

+10 on MuseScore and it's free

[brunello97]

Musescore is the best. You can import a notation PDF and add TAB in minutes.

I once asked Mike Compton if I should learn to read notation and he replied "Bill didn't know how to read music."

Why would someone care about Mike Compton's or some guy named Bill's opinion about whether to learn how to read music?

Seems like pretty bizarre logic to me.

If you want to do it, just do it.

It's not that hard and when you're done, you know how to read music.

Kind of a no-brainer.


Mick

[dylandekk]

I wasn't a big fan of Tabledit either. Just too Windows 95 at heart for me.

Many people have mentioned MuseScore and I also can't recommend this enough. Great for composing on a staff as well - as somebody who has used DAWs for decades this is a nice creative change of pace. I prefer using the free offline version of MuseScore 4 - don't bother with any of the paid features. Converting anything to mandolin tabs is easy. Drop a MIDI file in, print out tabs. In a few clicks, you can even use the online musical OCR tool to scan in images of sheet music and output usable digital MIDI or convert to tabs. Can't get much better than free.

[Chris Gray]

Why would someone care about Mike Compton's or some guy named Bill's opinion about whether to learn how to read music?Mick

I just thought it was interesting because Compton said "No" and I never realized the creator of bluegrass didn't read music. Thought I would share .

[dulcillini]

Tabledit is a good program overall. I agree with the other posters that the best strategy is to learn and use standard notation. I have found that spending more time listening, playing, and writing the notes was helpful. It helped connect the dots between what I see on the staff to the sound. In a quote from Mozart, you eventually learn to "hear with your eyes". It takes time and patience. I had no formal musical training and used TAB for many years on mountain dulcimer and mandolin. However, once I "broke through" on sight reading music notation, a whole new world opened up. The entire violin world is suddenly the mandolin world as well. Just a thought for you to ponder.

[ralph johansson]

Pencil and paper.

[JeffLearman]

I was surprised to hear Bela Fleck say he didn't read music.

[Bill McCall]

...........I once asked Mike Compton if I should learn to read notation and he replied "Bill didn't know how to read music."

Bach and Mozart could.....

Not to mention Chris Thile, Sierra Hull, Mike Marshall...

Just sayin.........

[ralph johansson]

The idea of "TABbing out" nusic is very alien to me, and probably my whole generation in BG, and related genres (I was born in 1944). In fact, on mandolin, in the early days, I never used any kind of notation as a source; I played tunes I already knew or picked out from records, and memorized by the oldfashioned method: understanding them. Over the years, however, I've committed my own compositions to paper, and collected in a folder. I've never even striven for fluency in TAB (whatever that means) which to me would be a monumental waste of time. Today I occasionally consult mandozine for tunes for which I have no other source. But I always begin by turning on the MIDI and turning off the SN and TAB, disregarding detail for the moment, to just get a feel for the structure and general outline of the melody, and find out whether the tune is worth the trouble of closer study. I strongly recommend that approach.

Among my most recent transcriptions is Slow Poke by Chilton Price. I took it from a video with Pee Wee King, where he does it in G; as the range did not appeal to me I decided on the key of Bb, and found out that that key can easily accomodate a nice rootless chord sequence at the end. Looking for a score on the internet I was not surprised to find only one, in G. Another recent transcription is Those Nights with Candlelight and Wine by Joe Tanner (recorded by the Nashville Guitars on Monument Records), in f minor which turned out to be the ideal key.

Since the old Scottish tune Big John McNeil was discussed in another thread today I googled for mandolin TAB for it and found this: https://simplymandolin.com/flekd/big-john-mcneil/ -- which to me eloquently illustrates my thesis that TAB gives you just one fingering, not *the* fingering. I would not play any of the a's in the first part open and on the second part I would move up the neck to make the melody bounce off the open a course, at least for better pick economy, and (to my ears) better control. Others may be led to other conclusions. Point: don't expect computer programs to do all the work for you.

[John Strong]

I learned to read music as a kid. It's a good skill. Given that, I find more value in tab when jotting down ideas and variations I want to remember. The tab tells me where on the fingerboard it lays which has a lot of value for me.

I'm a long LONG time TablEdit user. Both its strengths and quirks are familiar and comfortable But I will now check out MuseScore, it sounds great.

[Altmandw]

I'm sure these posts illustrate that everyone has their own system to assist with playing. Having been a music instructor for about 5 decades now, including stints as faculty of a music academy, courses at community colleges, workshops at festivals, etc., my opinion is each person can take whatever path is the most comfortable. One can use some notation software (for me, it's various programs from the Australian company under Crescendo), abc such as at The Session website, totally without anything other than your own ears (like famous musicians without formal training), tablature, etc. Each individual method has pluses and minuses. For what it's worth, my opinion is that it's good to remember that any method misses important points. For example, even Western music notation absolutely cannot be accurate enough to include strum syncopation, chord sequences in all their iterations, ornamentation techniques, intentional changes to timing and emphasis, and obviously the addition of improvisation. If everyone brings a music stand with whatever tools to an actual session, then the music can become something that has lost it's vitality and appeal. However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using music software, notation, and other tools to inform what you want to express.

[mbruno]

Musescore is my go to for writing out anything these days.

It's pretty easy to get the basics (and even easier once you get the keyboard shortcuts down) and it makes changing things around a breeze.

I like the linked staff feature which allows you to write standard notation and tab at the same time - this is really handy if you write a lick that you want to notate quickly. Yeah, standard notation is the gold standard - but some times tab is just quicker (especially for the fleeting quick inspired lines that you have to write down before you forget haha).

The chord box feature is great too. Allows you to write out the voicing you want to use for a chord, which is really helpful when doing voice leading or if you just want to play more positionally.

The playback is pretty basic - I wish there was a count in tool, but otherwise it's fine. It plays all staffs and chords - so you can really hear what's going on. This is really handy when writing out harmony lines IMO.

I pay for the pro version which has a few nice add ons, but the free version is just fine too. Give it a shot if you haven't already.

[Mark Gunter]

For example, even Western music notation absolutely cannot be accurate enough to include strum syncopation, chord sequences in all their iterations, ornamentation techniques, intentional changes to timing and emphasis, and obviously the addition of improvisation.

It’s always a little funny to me when someone comments on YT asking if I have TAB for a song that is basically accompanied by chording and rhythm playing with just a few runs or simple licks thrown in here and there. I could teach some interesting rhythmic devices, in person or on video, but to transcribe it on paper would be either impossible, or too confusing to follow.

Back to the OP, I’m still using TablEdit for writing, whether standard notation or tablature, simply because of familiarity. I think, personally, that Musescore produces nicer, printable sheets, but my time for writing music is so terribly limited, I just can’t afford to shift.

[Simon DS]

I play the octave mandolin most of the time, post vids of about 400 diverse tunes, and invariably post a PDF of TAB and notation along with every vid.
Why do I do that?
Partly because I remember how much time, literally months I would spend on Musescore or similar before ever picking up the instrument.
Now I like to hear someone else play the tune and then jump in by ear and hopefully with a PDF of TAB.

True I’m at the stage now where I could just listen and then play just by ear but even then, there are maybe 2000 tunes that I’ve played before and I’m not one of those people who can play all through the night, one tune after another. Maybe playing by ear will help but it’s a long road…

So for beginners I’d recommend doing that, www.abcnotation.com is pretty good because you can hear the tune first and have .abc but a lot of the commercial songs or tunes aren’t on the site. Here’s another with great tunes and notation: https://pegheadnation.com/string-sch...dolin-courses/

[DaveGinNJ]

I just thought it was interesting because Compton said "No" and I never realized the creator of bluegrass didn't read music. Thought I would share .

I would imagine many early bluegrass players could not read or write music.

[dylandekk]

Here's my thoughts on tab versus notation: they're both useful for their own strength. Notation is a visual record of music at the purest form - you get precise instructions on the key, tempo, and exactly how and when to play the notes of the piece. It doesn't matter whether you're playing it on a mandolin or a Theremin, the notation documents the music.

Tablature, on the other hand, documents fingerings. More specifically, it serves as instructions on how to play a particular piece on a specific instrument. This is a step removed from pure notation, and musicians who feel most comfortable in the world of notation will have to work out that intermediary step between translating the information on the page to the sound coming out of their instruments. This often happens automatically, especially when you have a good grasp of your fretboard and how to play specific notes instead of thinking (2 on E).

Ultimately, both are tools in the toolbox. Hell, sometimes I still like to transpose or compose using jianpu, which is the Chinese numbered musical system I picked up when I was learning erhu. Nobody is going to listen to you play, or even listen to something you composed, and say "well, yeah, but did they do this on a piece of parchment using a quill? Did they make sure to draw a staff by hand first?"

However you get there, whether through tab or notation or your neurons or hieroglyphics on the back of some toilet paper, it's all intermediary steps to the goal, which is music. Keep an open mind, use what works for you, discard what doesn't, and explore the things you struggle with so you can rise beyond them.

[ralph johansson]

I'm sure these posts illustrate that everyone has their own system to assist with playing. Having been a music instructor for about 5 decades now, including stints as faculty of a music academy, courses at community colleges, workshops at festivals, etc., my opinion is each person can take whatever path is the most comfortable. One can use some notation software (for me, it's various programs from the Australian company under Crescendo), abc such as at The Session website, totally without anything other than your own ears (like famous musicians without formal training), tablature, etc. Each individual method has pluses and minuses. For what it's worth, my opinion is that it's good to remember that any method misses important points. For example, even Western music notation absolutely cannot be accurate enough to include strum syncopation, chord sequences in all their iterations, ornamentation techniques, intentional changes to timing and emphasis, and obviously the addition of improvisation. If everyone brings a music stand with whatever tools to an actual session, then the music can become something that has lost it's vitality and appeal. However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using music software, notation, and other tools to inform what you want to express.

What appears "comfortable" to the beginner may not be the ideal approach in the long run. What you speak of in the last half of your post is *interpretation*, and who would want any of that in notation, your own, or somebody else's? It's something you arrive at on your own and develop over time. To me the ideal format is something like the lead sheets in the Real Book: melody, changes, in the most common key. With the melody in standard I can see *at a glance* how it connects with the harmony, hence I can also see how it works in some other key, I also see the possitiblities for melodic variation, fills, embellishments, etc. When notating my own compositions I usually omit the time signature, 2 or 4 -- it may vary. I never indicate whether the eighth notes are to be swung or straight. On one of my compositions i play straight on guitar and swung on mandolin, etc.

[Simon DS]

In the last 5-10 years in personal development the word 'Comfortable' has taken on a very different meaning.
-though I'd argue that being at school in a rigid system can often also be comfortable.
It depends on the students, do they enjoy being led? There are stages of development.