miles davis

hey, since i been trying to learn some sax stuff on mandolin, ive noticed that its alot more natural to play trumpet lines on the mando. i know some miles tunes already on the mandolin, however i dont know any of his crazy be bop stuff. that is what is catching my interest. any body have any leads on something like this?

[Pete Martin]

I've been learning an number of sax and trumpet solos recently. I find some trumpet players play in a register very similar to mando and some of their solos sit on the fingerboard very well.

If you want to learn bop lines, try my favorite player, Clifford Brown. He has the best bop soloing concept of the players I've heard. Every solo I learn of his is a big time education for me.

If I can figure out how, I'll post a couple of his solos I've transcribed at my web site.

[250sc]

I play Four on mando and guitar.

[Spruce]

Not bebop, but Miles' tune "In A Silent Way" sure works for mandolin....

[Brad Weiss]

Perhaps the best example of both is My Funny Valentine from 1964. What remains of the song itself are fragments of the melody, with accents shifted or inverted, and the idea of a c minor outside and an E flat #major inside.

Hey, I transcribed a good bit of Mile's solo on this one, and it lays out wonderfully. #Yes, it's the sparseness of his playing, the fluidiity of the line that counts. But, um -" What remains of the song itself are fragments of the melody, with accents shifted or inverted, and the idea of a c minor outside and an E flat #major inside" - what does this mean?? It sure sounds cool!

[Jim M.]

Get the album "So What" with David Grisman/Jerry Garcia. Really amazing how well Miles' stuff translates to plucked instruments.

[Peter Hackman]

Not bebop, but Miles' tune "In A Silent Way" sure works for mandolin....

It's Joe Zawinul's tune, presumably inspired by
his childhood in Austria. He recorded it himself
for Atlantic, with a quite different feel.


Miles Davis' version on Columbia
sandwiches
a completely unrelated funk piece (if I remember correctly, Silent Way is in E and the funk piece in F!),
and I fail to see the musical point.

They must have run of studio time because the
two appearences of Zawinul's song are IDENTICAL.

[mandroid]

'All Blues', is conveniently written in GMaj. .. sorted out a simple double stop melody line, thats fun to play around with.

[mandocrucian]

I've been learning an number of sax and trumpet solos recently. I find some trumpet players play in a register very similar to mando and some of their solos sit on the fingerboard very well.

25 years or so ago, I transcribed a bunch of western swing trumpet solos off of Asleep At The Wheel, Bob Wills, etc. records. Played on mandolin, they sounded a lot like the swingy mando stuff Ricky Skaggs played back then (on mandolin) when he was with playing J.D. Crowe and/or Boone Creek.

If you take Johnny Hodges alto sax solos and put them on to electric guitar, using string bending, it sounds similar to Richard Thompson. My brother was doing some of that. On the other hand, when RT played some Django tunes on his strat, with a lot of bending, it sounded like Johnny Hodges playing electric guitar.

Or.... Richard Thompson electric guitar solos put onto acoustic mandolin have a lot in common with Clarence White acoustic guitar stuff ("I Am A Pilgrim"..) put onto acoustic mando.

Without the cross-fertilization that comes from using various different "source instruments", one would miss out on a lot of these "connections".

Niles H.

[8strings]

I usually do not venture into this section of the mandolin cafe, but when I saw the Miles Davis headline today, I did. I would really love to learn at least one Miles Davis piece on mandolin. Trouble is I do not read notation, just tablature. Would any of you be willing to make something available here for me? I own the "So what" album and something from that would be great. I really appreciate anything! Thank you.

[250sc]

8strings,

Are the only cuts on "so what"; So What, Round Midnight, Green Dolphin Street, and Walkin?

[Peter Hackman]

I've been learning an number of sax and trumpet solos recently. I find some trumpet players play in a register very similar to mando and some of their solos sit on the fingerboard very well.

25 years or so ago, I transcribed a bunch of western swing trumpet solos off of Asleep At The Wheel, Bob Wills, etc. records. Played on mandolin, they sounded a lot like the swingy mando stuff Ricky Skaggs played back then (on mandolin) when he was with playing J.D. Crowe and/or Boone Creek.

If you take Johnny Hodges alto sax solos and put them on to electric guitar, using string bending, it sounds similar to Richard Thompson. My brother was doing some of that. On the other hand, when RT played some Django tunes on his strat, with a lot of bending, it sounded like Johnny Hodges playing electric guitar.

Or.... Richard Thompson electric guitar solos put onto acoustic mandolin have a lot in common with Clarence White acoustic guitar stuff ("I Am A Pilgrim"..) put onto acoustic mando.

Without the cross-fertilization that comes from using various different "source instruments", one would miss out on a lot of these "connections".

Niles H.

Alex Brashear played some rather folksy stuff
on simple songs in the keys of G and A. I suppose
he was influenced by the fiddles.

I can't remember that I ever transcribed and learned
whole solos by anyone, but I certainly picked
up stuff from various sources, Charlie Christian,
Barney Kessel, Jimmy Wyble (guitarists), and Lester Young,
whatever sounded worth stealing; then, of course, it
remained to transform these ideas into something
that sounded good - and personal - on my instruments.

I've transcribed (and read) solos by Clifford Brown
(e.g., Pentup House)
that sounded marvellous when he played them, but
almost
sterile and academic when I tried them myself.
Hed had a way with the sound(s) of the trumpet.

[jefflester]

Are the only cuts on "so what"; So What, Round Midnight, Green Dolphin Street, and Walkin?

No. It's got:

1. So What
2. Bag's Groove
3. Milestones
4. 16/16
5. So What
6. Bag's Groove
7. Milestones
8. So What

The last 4 being alternate versions. (Talking the Garcia/Grisman "So What" CD).

[Spruce]

"and I fail to see the musical point."

That whole recording is made up of tape edits....
"Let's put this piece right after that one, OK?

I hear there's a multi-CD version released w/o the edits...
Love to hear that....

"They must have run of studio time because the
two appearences of Zawinul's song are IDENTICAL."

Again, it was all about tape edits...

That kind of stuff was done a lot back in the day...
Check out the Paul's wonderful guitar solo in the Beatle's "Taxman"....
Same as the outro...

[jefflester]

I would really love to learn at least one Miles Davis piece on mandolin. Trouble is I do not read notation, just tablature. Would any of you be willing to make something available here for me? I own the "So what" album and something from that would be great.

There's a tabledit file of So What at mandozine. Not technically the Garcia/Grisman version, but it's in the same key and the riff looks right to me.

TablEdit files at mandozine

[jmcgann]

Jeff- If you use your ears it may take weeks, but you will gain something that reading can't touch. Especiallytab.

A big Milestone (pun intended) for me was figuring out Cannonball's solo on "Freddie Freeloader" on mando. It took quite awhile, but man, it is fun when you get it! It's "just a blues" in Bb. I never bothered writing it out- just because you can, doesn't mean you should The point is to be able to play it, and to understand the note choices- once you understand how chords and melody notes interact, the notation is much less relevant IMHO.

[glauber]

Slowdown software may help.

[250sc]

8strings,

I get it. Your talking about Grisman's CD So What. I found a Miles Album called So What and it only has the songs that I mentioned.

I agree that a slowdown application will pay for itself with the first song you work out.

I've been wanting to write out the chord changes and head to Four and have next week off. When I'm done I'll let you know if your interested.

[Richard Polf]

With regard to adapting horn-based music for the mandolin, I'd like to suggest the "Basic Jazz Conception for Saxophone", vols. 1 & 2; "Intermediate Jazz Conception for Saxophone" and "Advanced Jazz Conception for Saxophone" by Lennie Niehaus. Great intro to jazz lines and phrasing, and a lot of fun to work through. Lays real well on the mandolin (as I think about it, what doesn't). They are available from Jamey Aebersold at

jazzbooks.com

Scroll down to "Saxophone" under "Categories" on the left.

Regards, Richard Polf

[Peter Hackman]

Jeff- If you use your ears it may take weeks, but you will gain something that reading can't touch. Especiallytab.

A big Milestone (pun intended) for me was figuring out Cannonball's solo on "Freddie Freeloader" on mando. It took quite awhile, but man, it is fun when you get it! It's "just a blues" in Bb. I never bothered writing it out- just because you can, doesn't mean you should The point is to be able to play it, and to understand the note choices- once you understand how chords and melody notes interact, the notation is much less relevant IMHO.

I think there's even more to learn from Cannonball's
rhythm and phrasing, on just about any cut from Kind
of Blue. Gave it a spin today, it's awesome.

But my favorite solo on this whole album is the
painfully beautiful solo by Coltrane on
Blue in Green. Wonder how that translates on mando?

[grandmainger]

This is what it looks like when 14 mandolinists play Milestones on stage, lead by Radim Zenkl, with Sam Grisman on the Double Bass...


Symposium Concert

Germain

[jefflester]

This is what it looks like when 14 mandolinists play Milestones on stage, lead by Radim Zenkl, with Sam Grisman on the Double Bass...


Symposium Concert

Germain

With choreography it appears!

[grandmainger]

This is what it looks like when 14 mandolinists play Milestones on stage, lead by Radim Zenkl, with Sam Grisman on the Double Bass...


Symposium Concert

Germain

With choreography it appears!

Yes... Mmmmhhh... Radim sure can arrange a tune, but he is not the best choreograph!

[8strings]

Thanks for your input and response. Yes, I meant Miles Davis album. I have now located the tab for 'So What' on www.mandozine, but any others of that nature would be very welcome.

[Peter Hackman]

Ian Carr's bio on Miles Davis has some transcribed solos,
without chord symbols. In a few cases, like Godchild,
the chords may be inferred (or guessed)
from the solo. In other cases symbols would be completely
irrelevant. There are pieces that stick firmly to one
tonal center (key of F funk, you might say) with an
occasional whole-tone scale.

There are two versions of Funny Valentine, including the
classical one.