Mandola strings

[NotDoneYet]

I ordered a (very expensive) set of Thomastik Infeld Prazision Mandola strings - set 174 Medium - for my recently acquired Weber Yellowstone Mandola expecting to receive a set of strings to tune to CGDA. What I actually got was a set of strings apparently only suitable for tuning to GDAE which I presume are intended to tune an octave below standard mandolin tuning. I appreciate (in retrospect) that it's clear from Thomastik's website that their 'mandola' sets are intended to tune to GDAE and not what I thought was standard mandola tuning of CGDA but it was definitely not clear from the online retailer's site I bought them from.

Just a 'heads up' for any other mandola-ists out there.

[Bill Cameron]

Thanks! I’ve had a set of those hanging around for six months and never opened them till just now. (Mostly because I was thinking of getting an archtop mandola to put them on instead of the old econo-flattop I’ve had since the 90s—a nice instrument to be sure but I’m only putting the TI’s on my best. It takes me a long time to make up my mind about something like that.)

But for me this surprising information is the good kind of surprise. GDAE? Basically a super-comfortable 17” scale octave mando? Sign me up!

But…I just measured the G and D strings. Despite being marked on the package “17 3/4” scale length” They are clearly long enough for an octave mando, because they have a lengthy 27” -just between the wrappings at each end. They are so long that the peghead end wrappings will be entirely snipped off on the G and E strings (which each have a total length of 35”!) In fact, I think I’ll put them on my octave mando!

Is this the confusion about the Euro-British nomenclature of ‘octave mandolas’ and mandolas in general? Man I’m confused now. Someone else posted not too long ago about complaints that the TI mandola strings are actually too short for some dola’s… eh? Or was the problem that they were too long, which they are. Or did the company respond by over correcting?

[NotDoneYet]

Thanks! I’ve had a set of those hanging around for six months and never opened them till just now. (Mostly because I was thinking of getting an archtop mandola to put them on instead of the old econo-flattop I’ve had since the 90s—a nice instrument to be sure but I’m only putting the TI’s on my best. It takes me a long time to make up my mind about something like that.)

But for me this surprising information is the good kind of surprise. GDAE? Basically a super-comfortable 17” scale octave mando? Sign me up!

But…I just measured the G and D strings. Despite being marked on the package “17 3/4” scale length” They are clearly long enough for an octave mando, because they have a lengthy 27” -just between the wrappings at each end. They are so long that the peghead end wrappings will be entirely snipped off on the G and E strings (which each have a total length of 35”!) In fact, I think I’ll put them on my octave mando!

Is this the confusion about the Euro-British nomenclature of ‘octave mandolas’ and mandolas in general? Man I’m confused now. Someone else posted not too long ago about complaints that the TI mandola strings are actually too short for some dola’s… eh? Or was the problem that they were too long, which they are. Or did the company respond by over correcting?

Hi Bill,

Good to know it's not just me. I'm totally confused now!

I've just checked my pack of 174s and, contrary to your findings, they're definitely of the correct length to suit a 17 3/4" scale length. I rather think you're correct in that this is a disparity between different interpretations of what a mandola and octave mandola are.

However, like you, I agree that a short scale octave Mando could be a good thing and I'm looking forward to trying it out. The only thing stopping me at the moment (and you can have a laugh at my expense here) is that in my confusion I strung my mandola top strings with the 'A' strings out of the 174 set instead of the 'E' and trimmed the string back to the tuning post so I can't take them off again and reinstall them as my second strings 'cos they're now too short. What an idiot!

Replacement set of 174s are on order ��.

Al

[Anglocelt]

Welcome to the tricky world of mandola nomenclature. The Germans, who make Tomastik strings, play a lot of mandolas in their mandolin bands, but they tend to be tuned an octave below mandolin (EADG) and to be short-scale, about 18 - 20 inches, hence the beefy German mandola strings. In Britain and Ireland many folkies also play 'octave mandolas', normally longer scale, 21 to 23 inches, so the German strings don't quite fit. Also if you call them octave mandolas you will be quickly corrected to call them 'octave mandolins'. That's just how it is; don't ask me why. I blame Stefan Sobell.
This may be because there was no tradition of making mandolas in Britain (or, I should say, a lost tradition), unlike in Germany, so we had to invent names in the 1960s when the folk boom started. But octave mandos were made in the early 20th century by JE Dallas in London, for use in mandolin bands. Dallas called his octave mandos 'mandolos' (yes, with an o). I have one and it has a 20 inch scale. I hope that has cleared things up! (but somehow doubt it)
Kevin

[NotDoneYet]

Thanks for that Anglocelt.

The world of mandos, mandolas, octave mandos, octave mandolas, mandocellos, bouzoukis is clearly a minefield. Think I'll just get my mandola strung up and tuned to an octave below standard mandolin and leave it at that!

[Anglocelt]

Thanks for that Anglocelt.

The world of mandos, mandolas, octave mandos, octave mandolas, mandocellos, bouzoukis is clearly a minefield. Think I'll just get my mandola strung up and tuned to an octave below standard mandolin and leave it at that!

Very wise. As long as it sounds good, who cares?

[Ward Elliott]

I learned this lesson recently too. I ordered the 174 Light gauge set and when I went to install them, found they were WAY too heavy and way too long for a Martin bent-top mandola I had just rebuilt. They are definitely intended for a European mandola,or what we in the US would consider a short scale octave mandolin. I had to return them and I ordered the correct set (164) from a different supplier. And as it turned out, the 164’s were just barely long enough for the Martin, which has a tailpiece with string hooks on the end of the body instead of on the top face of the tailpiece. I think the 164’s are sized for a mandola with a 15.5-16” scale and Gibson-style tailpiece. I was glad they fit because they sounded awesome on the Martin!

[NotDoneYet]

So, a little update for information:

I got my Weber mandola (17" scale length) strung up with the Thomastik 174s (for 17&3/4" scale length according to the packaging).

Contrary to Ward's experience I have found that when tuned to GDAE the A & E strings sound and feel about right but the G & D string feels as though they're not tensioned up enough, particularly so with the G which sounds 'muddy' and 'slaps' on the frets when played anything more than quite softly. I'll leave them on for a while and see how they settle down. Would the fact that the strings are evidently designed for a 17&3/4" scale length but installed on my 17" scale length mandola make that significant a difference to string tension?

Al

[Ray(T)]

Although they don’t make Thomastic style strings, I string my octave and mandola with Newtone custom strings. You specify the gauge, material, core, end type and length and whatever instrument you say you want them for is printed on the packet!

[Ranger Bob]

So, a little update for information:

I got my Weber mandola (17" scale length) strung up with the Thomastik 174s (for 17&3/4" scale length according to the packaging).

Contrary to Ward's experience I have found that when tuned to GDAE the A & E strings sound and feel about right but the G & D string feels as though they're not tensioned up enough, particularly so with the G which sounds 'muddy' and 'slaps' on the frets when played anything more than quite softly. I'll leave them on for a while and see how they settle down. Would the fact that the strings are evidently designed for a 17&3/4" scale length but installed on my 17" scale length mandola make that significant a difference to string tension?

Al

This is exactly my experience. I have a 17” Kristufek mandola on which I put the 174’s. E and A are just fine. D is ok. G is quite flabby. So what I did was replace the top G with a 32 PB single and octaved it up. Sounds ok but I think I’ll do something different on the next string change.

[NotDoneYet]

This is exactly my experience. I have a 17” Kristufek mandola on which I put the 174’s. E and A are just fine. D is ok. G is quite flabby. So what I did was replace the top G with a 32 PB single and octaved it up. Sounds ok but I think I’ll do something different on the next string change.

Ah, that's interesting and somewhat comforting that it's not just me!

Ray(T)'s post about Newtone strings sounds like a possible solution. These are my thoughts:

Weber have a 'Weber Measurement Chart - Tuning/String Gauges' online. On there they quote what I presume to be their proposed optimum string gauges for various of their instruments. The relevant ones to this discussion are:

Mandolin (14" Scale length) G (40); D (26); A (16); E (11)
Carved Top Octave (22" Scale length) G (44); D (32); A (22); E (12)

So, I'm thinking you could interpolate the optimum string gauge for a 17" scale length instrument tuned to GDAE from these figures and order an appropriate custom set from Newtone.

Does that sound reasonable?

Al

[NotDoneYet]

Not sure that last post holds true as the two referenced instruments are tuned an octave apart.

Any thoughts?

[Ray(T)]

https://newtonestrings.com/shop/cust...-configurator/ and only 50miles down the road!

[BessieM]

I use Thomastik 174 Light for my Eastman Mandola tuned CGDA. They fit perfectly even though they are intended for a different tuning. The reason I could not use the 164 set is, that the strings were to short.

[NotDoneYet]

I use Thomastik 174 Light for my Eastman Mandola tuned CGDA. They fit perfectly even though they are intended for a different tuning. The reason I could not use the 164 set is, that the strings were to short.

I'm really surprised at that. If I've understood correctly you've taken a set of strings intended to be tuned to GDAE (an octave below standard mandolin tuning) and tuned them up a 4th to CGDA. Hasn't that significantly increased the string tension and aren't you concerned about the additional stress on the instrument?

[Monte Barnett]

The terminology used in describing mandolin-family instruments is historically confusing. There's a good read here: http://banjolin.co.uk/mandola/index.htm which gives an explanation I can live with. In order of voicing, this makes sense to me:

Soprano - GDAE - Mandolin ("Little Mandola")
Alto - CGDA - Mandola
Tenor - GDAE - Octave/Tenor Mandolin/Mandola (I'm converted to the "Tenor Mandola" side)
Baritone - CGDA - Mandocello ("Mandoloncello")

As it pertains to this thread: If your instrument has around a 15" to 17" scale, it's a mandola, and is traditionally tuned CGDA. The same strings could also be used at the lower GDAE tuning on the afore-mentioned octave/tenor instruments, but will be incapable of maintaining sufficient tension to be tuned down to GDAE on a 17" scale. At a minimum, the G&D strings would need to be a larger gauge to reach "optimal" tension at that pitch. It's all about length, diameter, and tension. I use the same 4 classical guitar strings on a concert uke tuned like a mandolin AND a baritone uke tuned like a mandola.

[NotDoneYet]

So, here's the thing, both Ranger Bob (post 10) and myself have observed the same results of putting the Thomastik 174's on a 17" scale length mandola i.e the A and E strings are fine, the G string seems way too low tension (or 'flabby as Rob puts it) and the D is just about ok but could do with a little more tension.

The Thomastik 174 string gauges are 50 (G), 35 (D) 23 (A) and 15 (E) so my theory about optimum interpolated gauges (see my post 11) which would suggest string gauges of 42, 29, 19 and 11.5 would appear to be nonsense. The G and D would need to be something like 60 and 40 respectively to match the tension of the A (23) and E (15) strings.

Any thoughts or is this just getting too tedious?

[Ranger Bob]

Not tedious at all. When I got my Kristufek 17" mandola a luthier had modified the nut and saddle to accommodate EADG tuning sized strings. That luthier had calculated the string gauges to be .063, .044, .030, .017. Those sizes were on when I got it and it really wasn't bad. Not long after, I put on the TI's and noted the G was too flabby. So I think your thought of 60 and 40 is in play here.

[NotDoneYet]

Not tedious at all. When I got my Kristufek 17" mandola a luthier had modified the nut and saddle to accommodate EADG tuning sized strings. That luthier had calculated the string gauges to be .063, .044, .030, .017. Those sizes were on when I got it and it really wasn't bad. Not long after, I put on the TI's and noted the G was too flabby. So I think your thought of 60 and 40 is in play here.

Ah, that's very interesting - thanks Bob. I must admit your observation regarding the nut and saddle slots hadn't occurred to me but it is, of course, very relevant. I'm not going to rush into changing my TIs any time soon having only just put them on at £48 a pop; I'll live with the flabby G for the time being. But I guess if in due course I choose to stick with the octave Mando tuning I'll need to have the nut/saddle adjusted.

Al

[Mandobart]

You could still use the G, D and A strings on the 'dola. Now you just need a pair of C's. This ain't rocket surgery.....