Stan Miller Brazilian rosewoods

[bobrem]

Brazilian rosewoods made by Stan Miller.
Mandolin #48 (Sept. 5, 2009)
Mandola #50 (Feb. 9, 2010)

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[lenf12]

Just stunning!!! How do they compare tone wise to maple back/sides mandolins by Mr. Miller? Thanks for sharing.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Bill McCall]

While beautiful, and I appreciate the rosewood, I would have rather had a less opaque stain on them. Some of the old birch Gibsons don't look too different, at least in photos. The color is certainly not typical for Brazilian rosewood as we see on guitars.

I know many folks will think differently..............

[Jeff Hildreth]

I concur.

I have played Brazilian rosewood mandolins made by Dexter Johnson of Carmel.
While stunningly beautiful, of the finest quality, and they were "bright"
Unlike the mandolins pictured, you could tell that they were Brazilian.

[bobrem]

While beautiful, and I appreciate the rosewood, I would have rather had a less opaque stain on them. Some of the old birch Gibsons don't look too different, at least in photos. The color is certainly not typical for Brazilian rosewood as we see on guitars.

I know many folks will think differently..............

Probably my lousy photo skills. I was getting a lot of reflection so I dimmed the lights. But they are darker than the reddish color to which you refer. The wood in these is CITES compliant from reclaimed stumps. Apparently Brazilian can range from "a darker chocolate brown to a lighter purplish or reddish brown..." See:
https://www.wood-database.com/brazilian-rosewood/

[bobrem]

Just stunning!!! How do they compare tone wise to maple back/sides mandolins by Mr. Miller? Thanks for sharing.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

Hi Len. I've never played one of his maples.

[Bill McCall]

I have seen antique furniture of the shade of Brazilian rosewood as you describe. Hadn’t thought about it in years.

As I said, they are beautiful.

[rcc56]

Brazilian rosewood color can range from light tan-brown through milk chocolate, then into dark chocolate to espresso, and also includes brick red through red-brown.

I think that what is bothering some of the viewers is that the grain and figuring on the Stan Miller instruments is not coming across on the computer screen.

I have an old friend who has a Crafters of Tennessee A-5 in Brazilian rosewood. It's quite a good mandolin. I would not characterize that one as particularly bright. I have also seen a Crafters F-5 in Brazilian.

Warning: I had to replace the fretboard on the Crafters A-5 because the frets were poorly located. For those of you who don't know, it is best not to seek out the original builder to service Crafters of TN instruments.

[Paul Kotapish]

Nice! I had one of the those Miller rosewood F-5s -- made just before the one John Reischman played before he got his Loar. Mine a very light stain on both the front and the back and the rosewood figure was prominent. It featured the same rose inlay on the peghead. John's was similar, except his had an elaborately carved neck heel.

I picked mine up at the 5th String (next door to Paul's Saloon) in San Francisco on my first trip there in the '70s. Great instrument. Very warm, woody tone. Seattle mandolinist Tom Moran played it after I switched to a lovely vintage F-4, and then it moved on.

[grassrootphilosopher]

Well Bob,

you´ve done good with the Stan Miller instruments... As I know that you are no slouch in having (had) some very interesting instruments: How do they compare. Give us the lowdown please. Mention some of the ones you have or have had, describe their appearance their sound, how they like to be treated and compare all that with the Stan Miller ones. And yes; in general: How would you describe the difference in sound between rosewood back and sides as compared to maple (as you had either).

[bobrem]

Here's better photos of the back of the mandolin.

[bobrem]

Well Bob,

you´ve done good with the Stan Miller instruments... As I know that you are no slouch in having (had) some very interesting instruments: How do they compare. Give us the lowdown please. Mention some of the ones you have or have had, describe their appearance their sound, how they like to be treated and compare all that with the Stan Miller ones. And yes; in general: How would you describe the difference in sound between rosewood back and sides as compared to maple (as you had either).

My first good mandolin was a Heiden F model #21, followed by a Heiden F #66 with a gorgeous one-piece back. Both were fantastic, but after playing Heidens for 20+ years I started looking for a different, I'd say more crisp, sound. I had a Red Diamond custom F #131 that was previously owned by David Grisman, and then a Gilchrist Model 3 #395. I got the Miller F rosewood #48 after the Gilchrist. I wish I could have kept them all, and I can't pick a fave. The one that recorded the best was the the Red Diamond. Heiden #21 had the best chop -- a throaty and woody "pop" that turned heads. Heiden #66 was balanced, clean and loud and very warm. The Gilchrist had developed a nice patina and had the "woodiest" sound of any I owned. It was simply amazing just to hold and feel the solid build quality. It had a wide neck that I adapted to quite easily, but I missed having an F. One day I looked at the Cafe classifieds and there was a "Miller F" listed. I opened it and low and behold it was a Brazilian, with CITES certification. John Reischman had told me about Stan Miller's mandolins and how he loved the rosewood he had, but they don't come up very often. Turns out this one was in Stan's home turf of Bellingham, Wa., not far from me in Victoria, B.C, so I hopped on the ferry the next day from my home on Vancouver Island. Miller #48 is warm and woody as Paul describes above. You can really dig into it -- it almost seems tight -- and it really likes to played loud, which hasn't happened often these last two years with gigs and jams cancelled due to COVID, plus I live in a condo so I try to be respectful of my neighbours. I guess I gravitate to warmer, woodier sounding mandolins. All of these had that quality, although the Red Diamond was brighter than the rest. I think rosewoods tend to be warm, and I find that the Miller doesn't like to be "babied" -- it respects a good workout. I have a video of the Red Diamond and another here . Somewhere I have a video comparing Heiden 66 with the Red Diamond but can't locate it. I try to post a sound file of the Miller.

[grassrootphilosopher]

Thanks for your input. I remember your Red Diamond youtube. It was a noticable mandolin because of its color (sort of grey/black). I remember John Reishman recording his Stan Miller mandolin on Tony Rice´s "Still Inside". I played a Heiden A-5 some years back in Brighton, UK at TAMCO. It was a very nice mandolin (as was the Brentrup PML that Trevor had). There´s a guy with a Red Diamond that I jam with about once a year. His F-5 is great, dark and throaty. I played several Gilchrist F-5s from around 2000 that I really liked (and liked better than the 90ies Gilchrists that I liked also). All of them were very even. In the tonal department it was mostly a question of taste. I would be hard pressed to voice any preference especially because I didn´t play the instruments back to back. I haven´t played a Stan Miller yet.

[CES]

Here's better photos of the back of the mandolin.

There it is! Gorgeous!!

[j. condino]

'Beautiful pair of mandolins. Do they also have Brazilian rosewood necks?

Most of the mandolins that I have been building for the last six years were red spruce tops with Brazilian rosewood back & sides. For me, often a red spruce top can have a bit of uncontrolled rowdiness to the voice when paired with a hard maple back. The rosewood backs tend to tame it a bit and give a nice chocolatey bottom to that.

I could play and or build in any combination but for my personal mandolins, I'm not giving up my red spruce over rosewood. It is a joy to carve- more like modeling clay that has none of the challenges that very curly maple can present. Finding 1" thick boards is very challenging because almost all of it in the US is cut up into very thin guitar building parts. I believe there is a member here who has a stunning Collings L5 guitar made with a carved Brazilian rosewood back.

Not to distract from the Miller pair, but here are a couple of mine. Two new rosewood F5s are on the books for 2022....

[bobrem]

[QUOTE=j. condino;1847708]'Beautiful pair of mandolins. Do they also have Brazilian rosewood necks?

Yes. Neck, back and sides. The top is Englemann.

[Bill McCall]

Chocolatey sound?

As a half deaf geezer, I can only relate to that as in 'the combination of the octal 6SC7 preamp tubes, the paraphase inverter, lower voltages on the 6V6s, and a small paper-bobbin OT all make for a warm, chocolatey sound favored by the traditional electric blues soloist'.

On the other hand, the Hachez Premier Cru bar I enjoy often sings to me with the smooth creaminess of a tropical melody, with light, fruity overtones

[grassrootphilosopher]

[QUOTE=bobrem;1847714]

'Beautiful pair of mandolins. Do they also have Brazilian rosewood necks?

Yes. Neck, back and sides. The top is Englemann.

Very interesting.

There is a video out from Retrofret with a 1934 F-10 (mahogany neck) and a Lloyd Loar F-5. It is very interesting to listen to the difference in sound when it comes to the neck material (https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...son-F-10/page2).

I could geek on, but I´d better put it to rest.

I like the wood color a lot.

[j. condino]

Chocolatey sound?

As a half deaf geezer, I can only relate to that as in 'the combination of the octal 6SC7 preamp tubes, the paraphase inverter, lower voltages on the 6V6s, and a small paper-bobbin OT all make for a warm, chocolatey sound favored by the traditional electric blues soloist'.

On the other hand, the Hachez Premier Cru bar I enjoy often sings to me with the smooth creaminess of a tropical melody, with light, fruity overtones

It's those 6v6s killing your hearing. I get better "tone truth" with the 7591s in my vintage Ampeg; Fliptops forever!

[Bill McCall]

The errors of my youth, compounded by too much shop time, but I had to earn a living

[bobrem]

[QUOTE=grassrootphilosopher;1847738]

I could geek on, but I´d better put it to rest.

Geek away!

[tree]

"Chocolatey" certainly applies visually, especially (to my eye) to the lovely bare endgrain with no binding around the back of j.condino's instrument.

Since descriptors for sound are so subjective (nobody really knows what "woody" means except to them), "chocolatey" is as fine an adjective as any to describe sound, and in my view, refreshing and creative. And in his riposte, you get "tone truth" (which I am definitely filing for future use)! "2 marks"