Playing chords alongside traditional tunes

[maxr]

I'm not sure that price is as good as it first appears, Simon. There's a note under the photo that says 'all stock of this item is ex-display only' - for which I'd expect to see a heavier discount.

[John Kelly]

I would agree with Maxr and Jill re sessions over here in my part of Scotland. The ones I attend are very much communal sessions where the players all join in and it is rare to have a solo spot or break during a tune or set of tunes. Different players will start a tune or a set and in my experience there is no overall leader and folk are free to suggest tunes. There are of course various open mic nights where individuals can have their chance to perform solo as the mic passes around the room. The performer might suggest that others join in the tune or song, but more often than not will take the chance of performing solo. The ones I have been to tend to be much more song-orientated rather than instrumental.

At my local weekly session last night we had six players with three fiddles, concertina, mandolin, octave and guitar. This was a smaller session than our usual. I had octave and guitar and the mandolin player and I swapped around throughout the evening. The fiddlers are used to playing together (and with the rest of us) and many of the tunes had harmony parts being played. This works when the group is small and the players are familiar with each other and with the tunes. In a bigger gathering there is less scope for this sort of playing. The main point of the session is for like-minded people to get together to play music.

[Ray(T)]

P

If you're not happy with what's available in Dundee, then you could make a bus or train trip up to Stonehaven, where Pete at Celtic Chords one of the best selections of mandolins in Scotland with a knowledgeable proprietor.

If you're going down to Edinburgh, then Scayles has a good range of Eastman and Kentucky mandolins.
I've also been impressed by Ashbury mandolins that I've tried.

Great little shop Celtic Chords but are they still trading? The link you posted seems t9 work but the rest of their site looks decidedly dodgy.

[John Kelly]

Ray, I noticed this on the website, which might explain the lack of info on many parts of the site at present:

PLEASE NOTE: Our website data base is currently partially closed for maintenance and updating work. We hope to have it back up and running again very shortly. For ORDERS and enquiries where products are not shown, please call the shop or email us.


I hasten to add I have no connections with the shop nor have I been in Stonehaven!

[Simon DS]

...The link you posted seems t9 work but the rest of their site looks decidedly dodgy.

Oh! the irony.
Saying something negative about someone or a company without proof could be seen to be dodgy too.
Though of course you may be right... or wrong.

[maxr]

Another thing you may find with sessions, Ethan, is that the technical ability and playing style of the other musicians can vary widely - which I think is on balance a good thing. In general, my impression is technical ability tends to be higher in Scotland than in the South of England where I live, possibly because Scottish trad music tends to be more technical and faster than the English Morris dance based equivalent. Also, some sessions play it very straight and some swing it whenever possible. In Scotland, you may find some play the notes of jigs fairly evenly, while others play them very syncopated or 'dotted' - they're both OK, so don't worry if a session does one or the other, just go with it. Just occasionally (thankfully) you'll encounter someone who doesn't listen to the way a tune's being played, and enters loudly in their own style - that's not OK. The last time I experienced that, the offender was playing a big loud accordion, joined in much faster and spoiled that tune to the extent that most other players dropped out and left her to it. Events like that are generally unusual.

[Ray(T)]

Oh! the irony.
Saying something negative about someone or a company without proof could be seen to be dodgy too.
Though of course you may be right... or wrong.

I don’t think I said anything negative about the shop - try reading the first few words of my post - it’s their website I have trouble with.

I tried to look at it a week or so ago and it didn’t work - in these covid days, I assumed something might have happened to them; it’s unusual to find such a shop in an out of the way place. I followed the link Bren had posted which gave me a page-ful of mandolins but links to other pages took me to strange places which is why I asked if they were still trading.

That said, Stonehaven does claim to be the home of the deep fried Mars bar!

[Simon DS]

…The last time I experienced that, the offender was playing a big loud accordion, joined in much faster and spoiled that tune to the extent that most other players dropped out and left her to it. Events like that are generally unusual...

Ouch!! Ha, ha, nice one Maxr.
Thinking more about the younger generations here, it’s a good example for session etiquette Maxr.
You wrote a criticism (which is fine if you feel that way) so you would tend to use ‘they’ instead of ‘she’ -if you were in a politically correct session. It’s because gender isn’t important in this situation. And if it is, then… ha, ha, God help you !
It would be like saying, ‘there was this black guy playing with a terrible rhythm last night’ when all that’s important is the question, did he/she/whatever keep in time with the rest of us?

[Simon DS]

Sorry if I was a bit abrupt Ray, it was just the word, ‘dodgy’ that I questioned.

It reminded me of the 1970’s when businesses would go bust every week and that one of the sales techniques that companies would use would be to imply that their competitors were ‘dodgy’ or going bust or that they were soon to go into receivership. It seems to be going that way now. In fact a thread on all of the different sales techniques that companies (un-named) are now beginning to use would be insightful. I’ve recently lost money to one of them.

[larten27]

I would agree with Maxr and Jill re sessions over here in my part of Scotland. The ones I attend are very much communal sessions where the players all join in and it is rare to have a solo spot or break during a tune or set of tunes. Different players will start a tune or a set and in my experience there is no overall leader and folk are free to suggest tunes. There are of course various open mic nights where individuals can have their chance to perform solo as the mic passes around the room. The performer might suggest that others join in the tune or song, but more often than not will take the chance of performing solo. The ones I have been to tend to be much more song-orientated rather than instrumental.

At my local weekly session last night we had six players with three fiddles, concertina, mandolin, octave and guitar. This was a smaller session than our usual. I had octave and guitar and the mandolin player and I swapped around throughout the evening. The fiddlers are used to playing together (and with the rest of us) and many of the tunes had harmony parts being played. This works when the group is small and the players are familiar with each other and with the tunes. In a bigger gathering there is less scope for this sort of playing. The main point of the session is for like-minded people to get together to play music.

Aye that's the kind of session I prefer. I used to attend a folk jam session in Glasgow that wasn't so much fun, same idea but they went round the room one at a time each leading for one song that seemed to go on an age. At my current sessions there are 3 or 4 fiddlers that will lead some sets but everyone is free to cut in whenever they please, you'll always get people joining in no matter what you do. I love the atmosphere, just a group of people having a great time enjoying the music.

There can be as many as 20-25 of us crammed into a small pub side room but it never feels like we're competing for time, I love it

[maxr]

That said, Stonehaven does claim to be the home of the deep fried Mars bar!

It may be - but Edinburgh is the only place I've seen a fish and chip shop with 'Full Wine List' advertised outside...

[maxr]

You wrote a criticism (which is fine if you feel that way) so you would tend to use ‘they’ instead of ‘she’ -if you were in a politically correct session. It’s because gender isn’t important in this situation.

Well, the offender was neither male nor transsexual, having self declared as female in discussions with the assembly (hah! note my avoidance of gender determinant words for the assembled musicians). So, as a descriptor of an anonymous accordionist from a real event, I feel that use of the female gender indicator appears justified - nevertheless, my apologies to any here who feel they may nonetheless have been offended or threatened by my description. I am making one assumption, which I feel is justified, which is that the accordionist concerned is not profoundly deaf - that would however not have been an extenuating circumstance, because a deaf accordionist would surely have played a lot more in time with the rest of us. This may indeed have been a politically correct session, because it was within 5 miles of Falmouth, Cornwall, UK, and Falmouth is quite a right-on kind of place. Many residents are loath to open their mouths without previously submitting a transcript of their intended parlance to the speech police, lest they offend innocent bystanders of tender sensibilities (and possibly senses). So, I checked my post was writ careful, in case I get cancelled from future unpaid events at the unnamed venue concerned.

Is that OK? Max

[Simon DS]

…Is that OK? Max

You’d have to ask everyone at the session. It’s ok with me either way, but if I went to a regular session and women began to leave then, no it wouldn’t be ok for me

[Bren]

As far as I know Pete is still trading - I was talking to a friend about his stock the other day.
Perhaps I messed up by linking directly to his mandolin page but small traders don't always have great websites so I wouldn't judge him by that!

Weather looks like continuing mild this weekend. I should take a jaunt down there.

the Carron Fish Bar which claims the d-f Mars Bar origin is a very good chipper (as we call them in NE Scotland) , as I believe is award-winning The Bay . The queue at The Bay's always too long for me, so I've never sampled their fare. Between them they seem to have made other local chippers raise their game, so you can't go wrong in Stoney.

If the Stonehaven Folk Festival goes ahead in July 2022 then I will be there in the sessions for sure, and happy to buy a pint/dram/cuppa for any MC regulars or occasionals who make their way up, and talk mandolins.

[larten27]

If the Stonehaven Folk Festival goes ahead in July 2022 then I will be there in the sessions for sure, and happy to buy a pint/dram/cuppa for any MC regulars or occasionals who make their way up, and talk mandolins.

On a similar vein, I'm hoping the Celtic Connections nights I'm going to don't get cancelled

[Ray(T)]

It may be - but Edinburgh is the only place I've seen a fish and chip shop with 'Full Wine List' advertised outside...

My favourite was in Kikcudbright but it closed down earlier this year. Great choice of fish but they didn’t serve wine; it was simply BYO. You really need to avoid the ones that serve deep fried pizza!

[larten27]

My favourite was in Kikcudbright but it closed down earlier this year. Great choice of fish but they didn’t serve wine; it was simply BYO. You really need to avoid the ones that serve deep fried pizza!

I strongly disagree! I'm a big fan of the pizza crunch personally, my favourite chippy is Mario's Plaice in Glasgow and they never disappointed.

[JeffD]

Also a note for our (majority?) American friends. IMO, UK folk sessions don't generally feature solo breaks, even more rarely improvise breaks they tend more to everyone playing the tune or rhythm (occasionally, 'to death'). Maybe solo breaks would be a great idea, but for whatever reason, they're not common in sessions I've been to.

I don't think that is geographical as much as it depends on the genre. Bluegrass is break oriented, trad Irish/Scottish not so much. So even though one might find muchmore bluegrass in the US, say, the trad sessions in the US would, generally speaking, be less solo break oriented. Likewise, a bluegrass jam in the UK would certainly be more solo break oriented.

[Bren]

Most trad sessions will give you a respectful listen if you're a visitor and play a tune they don't know.

You can tell if they liked your playing or not by whether they ask you what the tune is called. :-)

[larten27]

Most trad sessions will give you a respectful listen if you're a visitor and play a tune they don't know.

You can tell if they liked your playing or not by whether they ask you what the tune is called. :-)

I've at least had them compliment my singing with most of the non-Scots asking what some of the songs are, not a bad sign at all

[larten27]

Overall I'm probably just nervous. New instruments are always like that and I'm not used to playing anything around people, only ever singing what I know I can.

If anybody here knows about ADHD you'll know about how quickly we can become bored of new hobbies, as much as we may love them we can just as easily cast them aside. I love the idea of picking up mandolin but it would upset me if I put it down after a month never to pick it up again.

That's the gamble any time I suppose. At least for however long I do play it, it will have brought me joy. And that ain't a bad thing at all.

[maxr]

If anybody here knows about ADHD you'll know about how quickly we can become bored of new hobbies, as much as we may love them we can just as easily cast them aside.

On the other hand, Ethan - I know a musician with ADHD very well, and he's one of the few people I know who appears to be able to just pick up any plucked string instrument in any reasonable tuning and play something worth hearing in a few minutes. He can also hear music for the first time and play it back from memory very quickly. I suspect you'll do very well with mandolin

[catmandu2]

I'm afflicted as such - it's definitely both blessing and curse.

Being able to play anything, learn quick, ear to arrange everything, etc was a great boon back when I was young - five different bands; different instrument in each band - lots of fun. And merely for personal edification, the experience of studying music - traditions, methods, techniques - is valuable, as you recognize. Music gives back what one puts into it. Considering what immense value music and the arts afford, I view it as a heuristic, beneath it all.

[larten27]

I'm afflicted as such - it's definitely both blessing and curse.

Being able to play anything, learn quick, ear to arrange everything, etc was a great boon back when I was young - five different bands; different instrument in each band - lots of fun. And merely for personal edification, the experience of studying music - traditions, methods, techniques - is valuable, as you recognize. Music gives back what one puts into it. Considering what immense value music and the arts afford, I view it as a heuristic, beneath it all.

It really is both, I can be such a fast and dedicated learner but it's a lottery what will hold my attention. I'll be starting medication for it soon so maybe that'll help me along in becoming a decent musician (if I had to pick a dream job it would be busking/small gigs...)

[maxr]

All the best with that, I expect we'll see you here regularly.