Mandolin or Mandola - Next step in the stringed journey

[subby13]

I've taken a little journey in the last several years from Ukulele to Baritone Ukulele to Tenor Guitar (GDAE) to Guitar and now after finding myself as the fifth guitarist in my gigging band's rotation I'd like to diversify back to fifths tuning.

I don't feel I gave fifths tuning with the TG a fair shot as I was in OM tuning and eventually jumped to Guitar as they were sonically so similar (especially with four single strings) and tablature/lessons were so much more accessible on the guitar. I'd like to jump back and dig in on an instrument that is different enough from the guitar to enjoy and layer in nicely with guitar players and a full band. I also do a lot of duo playing with a guitar player.

I am tempted by the Mandola because it's not such a massive jump in size and pitch from the guitar I've gotten so used to, but I do worry about the lack of learning materials compared to the mandolin. I also know the mandolin is in it's own world sonically and I'll really be able to seperate in a full band.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Zach Wilson]

How big are your hands/fingers? A wide nut mandolin may be in order to make the switch a little easier. However, I move between guitar and (standard nut) mandolin without any problems... I do play only short scale guitars though.

Sorry I can't comment on whether to play Mandolin vs. Mandola as I have never owned a Mandola. I do know that there are not a lot 'dolas out there though and the price seems to reflect that.

[journeybear]

I have a mandola and a National steel tenor guitar. The mandola's neck is not that much longer than a mandolin's, but the TG's neck is much closer to a guitar's - yet I've always tuned them the same, CGDA. I'm not 100% sure how that's possible. But still, my eyebrows raised involuntarily when you said how you tuned your tenor. I'm not sure how that's possible. I'm guessing you tuned it lower, an octave down from a mandolin. Thicker strings?

Anyway, that said, I applaud your decision to try a mandola. I don't play mine nearly as often as I should - though lately that could be said for them all - but I am unspeakably glad it is there if I'm ever so inclined. It's a 1916 Gibson H-2, the first collector-quality instrument I owned, and I got a very good deal when I bought it, several key factors aligning almost magically. I'm sure their prices run way higher now, and I would not be in the running. I believe the current style for modern mfrs is for them to have longer necks, as you said, closer to your guitar (though I would think it would be octaves that would really be that long), so maybe that is the way to go, rather than a vintage Gibson. The string length on my mandolin is 14", mandola, 15.5", tenor guitar 23.5". See what I mean?

[allenhopkins]

Playing with four other guitars? While normally I'd second j-bear's endorsement of the mandola, I'd think that mandolin would get you out of the "guitar chorus" a bit more efficaciously. Whichever you pick, the neck's gonna feel a lot different from either guitar, tenor guitar or baritone uke, so I'd "bite the bullet" and accept that you're facing a serious change in scale length, neck thickness, etc.

Mandola's range of pitch overlaps the guitar's much more significantly than mandolin's. I'd go for the "treble sound" if you want to contribute a different voice to your band.

[journeybear]

Allen's right, as he usually is. Though he's ever so slightly wrong about one thing - I wasn't endorsing the mandola so much as supporting the OP's decision, and also offering some insight gleaned from playing one for a while. But Allen is spot on concerning the mandola's range and how much more a mandolin would stand out in this configuration. Too much mid-range strumming can produce a boring drone. One of the most boring shows I've ever seen was The Cranberries, apologies to Delores. There were four guitars, maybe a bass, and every song was strum strum strum. And I think even mostly the same chords, no different fingerings, which can produce some variation. So yeah, some treble input might go a long way toward producing a more interesting sound.

Then again, you said you were the fifth guitarist in the band's rotation, so maybe you're not all playing guitar at the same time? The only other time I've seen so many acoustic guitars in one band, it was Ricky Skagg's Kentucky Thunder, and even then, with a fair amount of switching off and attention to the aforementioned fingering variety, it still left me wondering, why?

[pheffernan]

I'd like to jump back and dig in on an instrument that is different enough from the guitar to enjoy and layer in nicely with guitar players and a full band. I also do a lot of duo playing with a guitar player.

I also know the mandolin is in it's own world sonically and I'll really be able to seperate in a full band.

I captured these two statements in particular to point out your statement of your intended application and your correct identification of the right tool for the job. Mandolas, tenors, and other instruments tuned in fifths are wonderful fun, but for what you’re intending to do, I’d recommend that you start with the mandolin.

[allenhopkins]

Allen's right, as he usually is.... One of the most boring shows I've ever seen was The Cranberries, apologies to Delores. There were four guitars, maybe a bass, and every song was strum strum strum. And I think even mostly the same chords, no different fingerings...

Hey, thanx for the compliment. And re:Cranberries, the late Ms. O'Riordan was the band, IMHO -- although, based on YouTube vids, she was totally unable to sing on pitch "live." Don't believe the surviving members are making an effort to "carry on the Cranberries sound," are they?

[OldSausage]

Geez, poor Cranberries, I'm sure they are super sorry they did not meet everyone's exacting standards in their brief stay on this planet. But obviously subby13, get a mandolin, that's what you need.

[tmsweeney]

I concur with the overlap using mandola and guitar, and the guitar tends to stand out while the dola is hidden, that being said - I have been using my dola as a melody instrument with accompaniment on octave mandolin, lucky enough to have two Webers that compliment each other's tones wonderfully - shameless plug



I am exploring more and more "jazz" on the dola - working on some Pat Metheny and some Larry Coryell ,also some Django at the moment - I think it is kind of in the Chuck Mangoni Fugel horn territory. To me the chords on the dola just seem to fit better than the mandolin for jazz. Many great players (Burns, Grisman, Ostroushko, Marshall) make the mandolin work in a lot of this material, but its just a preference of mine.
Sometimes the mandolin to me is too much soprano to really reflect what guitarist and horn players were intending.
That being said, with a guitar or banjo or fiddle, mandolin generally seems a better fit.

[Charlie Bernstein]

. . . accept that you're facing a serious change in scale length, neck thickness, etc. . . .

Yup! For me, that was the fun of getting a mando. My folk guitars have mostly been dreads, so I wanted something as un-dread as possible.

Still ain't good, but I'm having a great time.

[journeybear]

My intention wasn't to trash the Cranberries, just to illustrate a point about using the broad audio spectrum. Yes, it was a disappointing show, but the idea I was trying to convey was how to arrange the instruments available to the best advantage. That's all.

OK, here's a more positive example. I was in a jug band for several years - oddly enough, one of the most long-lasting and successful bands in my screwy career - in which the guitarist and I worked out some ways to make our sound as full as possible. We utilized the obvious pitch difference between the instruments to produce the above-mentioned broad spectrum, and even assigned to ourselves the roles of left hand and right hand of the piano. Also, we would sometimes lock together in rhythm, and at other times he would play the downbeat and I would play the backbeat. By mixing it up with these dynamics and others, we got a much fuller sound with our instrumentation than one would have thought possible.

[maxr]

I guess one of the interesting things about mandolin is that it can complement vocals by playing above the vocal line, providing it's not all 'high and lonesome' vocals.

[journeybear]

That reminds of a theory of mine - this theory, which is mine, that is to say, my theory, is mine, and this theory, that is, my theory, which is mine, is mine, and this theory is, in a sense, mine - my voice being weighted toward the baritone range, interacts with the high-pitched mandolin in what is - theoretically - an intriguing manner. People still expect a rhythm instrument to be lower-pitched - like a guitar or banjo - So perhaps this notion is more successful in theory than in practice.

That said, when I play a solo gig or just play at home, I'll often work the low end of the instrument. Chords such as A 2245, E 1224, D 2002, G 0023, and C 0233 will feature prominently.

[Mandobart]

I also recommend mandolin for your 5ths retry. I play ukulele, mandolin, violin, mandola, viola, octave mandolin, guitar and mandocello.

First off, as you know by now, we can get decent guitars for a few hundred bucks US. To get an equivalent quality mandolin we have to spend more, closer to $1k. That's the reality in a world where there are probably 10,000 guitar players to every mandolin player.

Now consider there are probably 1000 mandolin players for every mandola player and you'll see why there are so few choices out there for a mandola. Also, a mandola is much closer by far to the mandolin range and size than it is to a guitar. I don't understand this perception that a mandola is "so much closer to a guitar than a mandolin", unless we're caught up in the European "octave mandola" phrase (which equates to an octave mandolin in the states - an octave mandolin high E is tuned the same as a guitar high E).

Typically a mandola is only a couple inches longer scale than a mandolin. It still sits mostly an octave above standard guitar tuning, and only goes one fifth below mandolin tuning. Three of the four string courses (G, D, A) are exactly the same on mandolin and mandola.

You'll have a much bigger selection of instruments, teachers, resources, strings, notation/tab for mandolin than you will for mandola.

[allenhopkins]

I also recommend mandolin for your 5ths retry....a mandola is much closer by far to the mandolin range and size than it is to a guitar. I don't understand this perception that a mandola is "so much closer to a guitar than a mandolin"...

I'm not sure that people meant exactly that a mandola is more like a guitar than it is like a mandolin; I think what they were saying is that a mandola is more like a guitar, in terms of its sound and range of pitch, than a mandolin is like a guitar.

The open 4th string on a mandola is the same C as the guitar's 5th string, 3rd fret. The open 1st string is the same as the guitar's 1st string, 5th fret. So a mandolist is covering a lot of the same "sonic territory" as a guitarist, albeit with much different tonality -- a mandola doesn't sound like a guitar, but sounds much more like a mandolin.

OP talks about playing with four guitarists -- which IMHO is a challenge in itself! I play a fair amount of mandola and octave mandolin in a Celtic group that also sometimes includes a single guitar (we do a lot of "doubling," so sometimes my OM is the only rhythm instrument). While I can stay out of the guitarist's way on mandola, I do notice that quite a few times we're playing in the same octave, and only the different timbres of the instruments really separate them.

Pretty sure that if I were playing mandola with four guitars, I'd have to be pretty clever or aggressive to "emerge from the thicket." So I concur with you: mandolin is our recommendation.

[Capt. E]

I've thought about a mandola for a long time as well, though I do play mandolin. Was lusting over a 1920 Gibson H-2 recently to go with my 1920 A-2. Have you played Tenor guitar? Do you have one? Try it in Mandola tuning (fifth apart C-G-D-A). Very easy transition for us mandolin players.