What chronic illnesses do old carved mandolins get?

[maxr]

Currently I have modest fresh out of the box mandolins, but sometime I might hanker after an old one. What common illnesse do old (say pre 1930) carved top mandolins get? It occurs to me that the high string tension might induce a few. Also, will a sound old mandolin generally stand up to e.g. an average set of modern 10-40 strings, or will they often be strung more lightly so play differently? Thanks, Max

[Jcdraayer]

A few that I encountered/looked out for when searching for my ‘24:
- major cracks in the top
- top sinkage
- back separation
- warped necks (pre-truss rod models)

Most of these are correctable and many mandolins on the market have had some or all of these repairs. I was lucky to find a very clean one, but seems like that might be tough to do again.

Unless there is major damage, it sounded like J74s and equivalent medium gauge strings can be used safely. Mine has 74s on it right now

[journeybear]

They also suffer a bit of exhaustion from being played so much, because they sound so good!

I've almost always used D'Addario J74s on mine. That's 11-40, mediums. And they do just fine.

Light strings don't cut it, for me, not on the acoustics. I like them on the electric, though, to get more string-bending.

[rcc56]

The most common problem that I see on the old Gibsons are loose braces and worn out frets. If they have been strung up with a loose brace, the tops can deform.

I rarely see badly warped necks unless they have been over-strung or have been neglected for a long time.

The old oval hole mandolins will hold up fine with 10 or 10 1/2 - 14 - 24 - 40. I consider 11 - 15 - 26 - 40 [J74] to be the maximum-- some will be fine, some will not.

J74's will tear up an old Martin or Vega flat top very quickly. Carved Lyon & Healy mandolins will do all right with 10 to 40.

Loose center seams and long cracks are usually the consequence of an instrument being exposed to low humidity or large, rapid changes in humidity. Adverse humidity is as dangerous to new instruments as it is to old ones.

[Ranald]

They also suffer a bit of exhaustion from being played so much

True of me too. My body that is, not my strings.

[allenhopkins]

Another frequent issue with older mandolins is deterioration of celluloid (pickguards, sometimes binding). Celluloid's components can be unstable, and aged celluloid can out-gas, crumble, or deform pretty easily. Pickguards on old Gibsons are often deteriorated, and the out-gassing can affect other parts of the mandolin or case lining.

[Jim Garber]

Another frequent issue with older mandolins is deterioration of celluloid (pickguards, sometimes binding). Celluloid's components can be unstable, and aged celluloid can out-gas, crumble, or deform pretty easily. Pickguards on old Gibsons are often deteriorated, and the out-gassing can affect other parts of the mandolin or case lining.

It is interesting that the plastics from the teens and twenties do fine. I have rarely seen problems with that era. The deterioration of pickguards and tuner buttons happens later into the thirties, forties and fifties. They probably changed the formula for the plastics.

I have had a good handful of Gibson ovals and the only problems I have noticed is the rim separating and getting out of alignment. I agree though that when assessing an old Gibson or any other older carved top mandolin, of possible, do have it checked out thoroughly by a competent luthier especially for loose braces, cracks, neck issues, etc.

[rickbella]

A few that I encountered/looked out for when searching for my ‘24:
- major cracks in the top
- top sinkage
- back separation
- warped necks (pre-truss rod models)

Hey, I resemble that remark!

[Charlie Bernstein]

The top has flattened a little on my '20s mando, but it still plays and looks fine.

It was a basket case when I got it. Other problems: a ruined finish, a crack between the back and side, useless tuners, worn frets, and no dots on the side of the neck.

It's an interesting question. Do you plan to be playing yours a hundred years from now?

[maxr]

It's an interesting question. Do you plan to be playing yours a hundred years from now?

Well, one reason is asked is that I started on fiddle, and some of those in daily use are '00s of years old. Of course, relatively few of those haven't been updated at some time to suit modern higher tension strings etc. with steeper reset neck angles (and some have now been reconverted for use as period setup instruments). You occasionally see violins with sagging tops, but mostly the arching is high enough that's unlikely to happen. Seams come unglued and so on, but generally old fiddles appear to keep sounding as good or bad as they ever did, give or take a little. Then I spoke to a classical guitar teacher who said he reckoned to get 15 years or so from a new classical guitar, He also said that full time professional classical guitarists often had their main concert instrument plus another 'coming on' for 8-10 years, because (apart from having a spare) those instruments not only take some time to sound optimal from new, but eventually the sound started to deteriorate slightly as the instrument 'gets tired'. Posts above suggest this can happen with mandolins - I'd guess especially ones that have been used for the punishing gigging schedules of bands in the 1930s (sometimes 6 month tours, acccording to this bluegrass history lying on my desk). Is that a factor, or only among the oldest and best (carved top) mandolins such as I'm never likely to own?

[allenhopkins]

...I started on fiddle, and some of those in daily use are '00s of years old. Of course, relatively few of those haven't been updated at some time to suit modern higher tension strings etc. with steeper reset neck angles (and some have now been reconverted for use as period setup instruments). You occasionally see violins with sagging tops, but mostly the arching is high enough that's unlikely to happen...

True, but put eight steel strings on your fiddle, and see what happens. Mandolin tops have to sustain quite a bit more load, which is why most (not all) of the "old carved mandolins," at least those with oval soundholes, have a substantial cross brace located just south of the hole. This is the one that can loosen or deform, allowing the top arch to sink. That type of mandolin bracing in some ways echoes guitar bracing, at least that of steel-string acoustic guitars.

[Jim Garber]

Let's see: my violins are 106 years old; my Gibson mandolin, 98; Gibson guitar, 82; banjo, 131, my Embergher bowlback, 117, etc. All these are well-built instruments of various types of construction but as long as they are cared for and not mistreated should last for another century. Some require knowing enough how to take care, for instance, most vintage bowlbacks should have very light strings and the universal caveat to keep your eye on the bracing on these instruments, including violin sound posts and bass bars.

[Charlie Bernstein]

[QUOTE=maxr;1847970. . . I'd guess especially ones that have been used for the punishing gigging schedules of bands in the 1930s (sometimes 6 month tours, acccording to this bluegrass history lying on my desk). Is that a factor, or only among the oldest and best (carved top) mandolins such as I'm never likely to own?[/QUOTE]
You got me there, podner! I'll leave that one to finer minds.

[journeybear]

Let's see: my violins are 106 years old; my Gibson mandolin, 98; Gibson guitar, 82; banjo, 131, my Embergher bowlback, 117, etc. All these are well-built instruments of various types of construction but as long as they are cared for and not mistreated should last for another century.

It is a bit amusing to think about how old these instruments are - and also heartwarming to realize what good shape they are in after so long. All my instruments are from the teens, except the F-4, the baby of the group, from 1922. I have a 1907, too, which needed work right off the bat; I haven't even played it yet. Looking forward to getting it back from the shop in the spring.

We are the caretakers of these instruments. It's our duty to maintain them as well as our privilege (and joy) to play them.