i am fascinated by the challenge of crafting the perfect dovetail joint on mandos. Would anyone be willing to show a photo or two of your work in this vital area of the mandolin? Much appreciated. Thank you.
i am fascinated by the challenge of crafting the perfect dovetail joint on mandos. Would anyone be willing to show a photo or two of your work in this vital area of the mandolin? Much appreciated. Thank you.
Here is a very detailed video of how I make them, shot about 6 years ago:
https://vimeo.com/149088032
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
Austin Clark has this video on cutting dovetails. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX17AZ4Mkmw
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Here are some threads where I posted how I do it.
https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...etails-by-hand
https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...ail-neck-joint
Adrian
I have always used Dovetail joints.... I do like to see other peoples takes on things as well. Siminoff uses a V joint a bit different from a traditional dovetail... You can see the videos below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyYXFCuPEx0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdismQH0uEc
John, is that a "full sized" gents saw you're using there or would something smaller like the "razor saw" linked below work ok for cutting a mandolin dovetail?
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...w?item=60F0312
The saw in the picture is a tool I bought many years ago from Stewart Macdonald in my youthful ignorance, for cutting fret slots. They basically took a standard dovetail saw and "mashed" almost all of the set out of the teeth to make the kerf small enough, and sold it to unsuspecting "wannabe" luthiers for slotting fingerboards. It was miserable trying to use the saw because the lack of set made it bind in the kerf causing frustration and bad cuts.
It laid around the shop being of no use for a few years, and finally I set the teeth and resharpened the saw and it has been a pretty good dovetail saw ever since! It cuts easily and smoothly, but the kerf is much too wide for fret slots of course. Live and learn...
It is a bigger tool that the one you linked, more like 10 inches (more or less) of blade. I did a quick search for "dovetail saw" and found quite a few different models of similar size available.
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
Before John responds: Tiny teeth can be clumsy in a hand-held plier type, but doable. It’s easy, if you don’t have the patience for pliers, to use a block of wood and a punch and small hammer. Then squeeze the now irregular set in a vise to equalize. But (Japanese) pull saws are fundamentally resistant to binding and seem to be very fast cutting. This from a guy who’s so cheap he resharpens bandsaw blades.
I suppose it is the plier type saw set that I use; you squeeze a handle and a plunger pushes a saw tooth down against an adjustable bevel. I have one that adjusts all the way down to 20 or more ppi. I think I got it at a flea market.
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
Western saws are tedious to sharpen, but it's a useful skill to develop because it's difficult (at least it has been for me) to find anyone else who does the job well, and once you try it and have even moderate success, you have improved your handsaw. Rip teeth (the type on a dovetail saw) are the easiest, and seem not to require much set.
I'm not really interested in learning the geometry of the Japanese saws, although I own and use several, and love how they cut. My philosophy is to take good care of my Japanese saws until they are no longer sharp, then order a replacement blade and turn the old blade into card scrapers.
Old saw sets of all types and quality abound at flea markets, antique and junk stores, yard sales, and internet auction sites. OTOH, A good saw vise is indeed a prize. As is a good lighted magnifier for my old eyeballs.
Clark Beavans
Sharpening rip teeth requires a different file angle from cross cut teeth but I find them to be about the same degree of difficulty. I have an old cast iron saw vise from a flea market (it still needs a little work) and one steel one that my dad used when he sharpened saws. Key to learning to sharpen any tool, IMO, is understanding how the tool works. Rip saws and cross cut saws work a little differently and thus the difference in sharpening. (One cuts more like a chisel and the other cuts more like a knife.)
I think the teeth on my dovetail saws are sharpened for cross cutting. They cut much better across the grain, and in fact, cutting dovetails is a compromise for one saw because the direction of grain varies. Perhaps I should have at least one with rip teeth...
I have one rip saw, and old Diston, and one Japanese rip saw with variable tooth spacing to help avoid chatter. It works OK for some things and not so well for others.
Unlike many people, I actually prefer a back saw that cuts on the push stroke though either will get the job done.
Anyway, all the talk of saws is not drifting too far from the subject at hand because when we learn to use a dovetail saw well, and are in possession of a good sharp one, cutting dovetails by hand can be a pleasurable experience.
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
One of the oddities I found at yard sale consisted of one round disc with a beveled edge, a circular saw blade, and another piece, half round on top and rectangular down below. A wingnut and bolt through the centers. Took me a while to realize it was a homemade saw vise for circular saw blades and was meant to be clamped in a bench vise. These days, carpenters here will toss a $60, 12” carbide chop saw blade every couple of hours and put on a new one. They don’t even bother taking them to be sharpened.
It's been so long since I've been able to find someone to sharpen carbide tipped blades properly without overcharging that I suspect they gave up getting blades sharpened. Lots of people recommend Forrest for sharpening, but they will only do high quality blades, so those $60 chop saw blades are probably pretty much disposable these days.
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
Thank you John and everyone else for your replies! I will keep my eye out for a true dovetail saw instead. Admittedly I was trying to see if that much cheaper saw would work, but it sounds like spending more for a true dovetail saw, or finding a used one somewhere, will yield a much better result. Thank you all for your insights.
There is an old guy about 4 blocks from my shop that has a great saw & tool sharpening shop. He has been at the same location since he got back from Korea & started the business. Great work & fantastic old school prices...
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