Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Dove Tail Joint

  1. #1

    Default Dove Tail Joint

    i am fascinated by the challenge of crafting the perfect dovetail joint on mandos. Would anyone be willing to show a photo or two of your work in this vital area of the mandolin? Much appreciated. Thank you.

  2. #2
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    2,758

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    Here is a very detailed video of how I make them, shot about 6 years ago:

    https://vimeo.com/149088032
    www.condino.com

    Crafted by hand in a workshop powered by the sun.

  3. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to j. condino For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15,863

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    When I made a mandocello a few years back a friend and customer asked if I could get some pictures of the process. I only found a few pics of cutting the mortise in the head block, but this shows most of how I cut them.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	body.dovetail.sawing.jpg 
Views:	107 
Size:	97.9 KB 
ID:	198177Click image for larger version. 

Name:	body.dovetail.2kerfs.jpg 
Views:	105 
Size:	94.9 KB 
ID:	198178Click image for larger version. 

Name:	body.dovetail.kerfs.jpg 
Views:	118 
Size:	95.6 KB 
ID:	198179Click image for larger version. 

Name:	body.dovetail.cut.top.jpg 
Views:	117 
Size:	96.8 KB 
ID:	198180

  5. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to sunburst For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Posts
    2,775

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    Austin Clark has this video on cutting dovetails. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX17AZ4Mkmw
    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow Manouche
    Arrow Jazzbo
    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Gibson F5L
    Gibson A-4
    Ratliff CountryBoy A

  7. The following members say thank you to Bill McCall for this post:


  8. #5
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    3,461

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    Adrian

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to HoGo For This Useful Post:


  10. #6

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    I have always used Dovetail joints.... I do like to see other peoples takes on things as well. Siminoff uses a V joint a bit different from a traditional dovetail... You can see the videos below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyYXFCuPEx0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdismQH0uEc

  11. The following members say thank you to Rose #1 for this post:


  12. #7
    Registered User Schneidly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    When I made a mandocello a few years back a friend and customer asked if I could get some pictures of the process. I only found a few pics of cutting the mortise in the head block, but this shows most of how I cut them.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	body.dovetail.sawing.jpg 
Views:	107 
Size:	97.9 KB 
ID:	198177Click image for larger version. 

Name:	body.dovetail.2kerfs.jpg 
Views:	105 
Size:	94.9 KB 
ID:	198178Click image for larger version. 

Name:	body.dovetail.kerfs.jpg 
Views:	118 
Size:	95.6 KB 
ID:	198179Click image for larger version. 

Name:	body.dovetail.cut.top.jpg 
Views:	117 
Size:	96.8 KB 
ID:	198180
    John, is that a "full sized" gents saw you're using there or would something smaller like the "razor saw" linked below work ok for cutting a mandolin dovetail?
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...w?item=60F0312

  13. #8
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15,863

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    The saw in the picture is a tool I bought many years ago from Stewart Macdonald in my youthful ignorance, for cutting fret slots. They basically took a standard dovetail saw and "mashed" almost all of the set out of the teeth to make the kerf small enough, and sold it to unsuspecting "wannabe" luthiers for slotting fingerboards. It was miserable trying to use the saw because the lack of set made it bind in the kerf causing frustration and bad cuts.
    It laid around the shop being of no use for a few years, and finally I set the teeth and resharpened the saw and it has been a pretty good dovetail saw ever since! It cuts easily and smoothly, but the kerf is much too wide for fret slots of course. Live and learn...

    It is a bigger tool that the one you linked, more like 10 inches (more or less) of blade. I did a quick search for "dovetail saw" and found quite a few different models of similar size available.

  14. The following members say thank you to sunburst for this post:


  15. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Land of The Great Grey Grasshopper
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    finally I set the teeth and resharpened the saw and it has been a pretty good dovetail saw ever since!
    John, did you use very small saw set pliers to set the teeth? I've only seen the ones for cross cut and rip saws.

  16. #10

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    Before John responds: Tiny teeth can be clumsy in a hand-held plier type, but doable. It’s easy, if you don’t have the patience for pliers, to use a block of wood and a punch and small hammer. Then squeeze the now irregular set in a vise to equalize. But (Japanese) pull saws are fundamentally resistant to binding and seem to be very fast cutting. This from a guy who’s so cheap he resharpens bandsaw blades.

  17. #11
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15,863

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    I suppose it is the plier type saw set that I use; you squeeze a handle and a plunger pushes a saw tooth down against an adjustable bevel. I have one that adjusts all the way down to 20 or more ppi. I think I got it at a flea market.

  18. #12
    Registered User tree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,570

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    Western saws are tedious to sharpen, but it's a useful skill to develop because it's difficult (at least it has been for me) to find anyone else who does the job well, and once you try it and have even moderate success, you have improved your handsaw. Rip teeth (the type on a dovetail saw) are the easiest, and seem not to require much set.

    I'm not really interested in learning the geometry of the Japanese saws, although I own and use several, and love how they cut. My philosophy is to take good care of my Japanese saws until they are no longer sharp, then order a replacement blade and turn the old blade into card scrapers.

    Old saw sets of all types and quality abound at flea markets, antique and junk stores, yard sales, and internet auction sites. OTOH, A good saw vise is indeed a prize. As is a good lighted magnifier for my old eyeballs.
    Clark Beavans

  19. The following members say thank you to tree for this post:


  20. #13
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15,863

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    Quote Originally Posted by tree View Post
    ..Rip teeth (the type on a dovetail saw) are the easiest, and seem not to require much set...
    Sharpening rip teeth requires a different file angle from cross cut teeth but I find them to be about the same degree of difficulty. I have an old cast iron saw vise from a flea market (it still needs a little work) and one steel one that my dad used when he sharpened saws. Key to learning to sharpen any tool, IMO, is understanding how the tool works. Rip saws and cross cut saws work a little differently and thus the difference in sharpening. (One cuts more like a chisel and the other cuts more like a knife.)

    I think the teeth on my dovetail saws are sharpened for cross cutting. They cut much better across the grain, and in fact, cutting dovetails is a compromise for one saw because the direction of grain varies. Perhaps I should have at least one with rip teeth...
    I have one rip saw, and old Diston, and one Japanese rip saw with variable tooth spacing to help avoid chatter. It works OK for some things and not so well for others.
    Unlike many people, I actually prefer a back saw that cuts on the push stroke though either will get the job done.

    Anyway, all the talk of saws is not drifting too far from the subject at hand because when we learn to use a dovetail saw well, and are in possession of a good sharp one, cutting dovetails by hand can be a pleasurable experience.

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sunburst For This Useful Post:


  22. #14

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    One of the oddities I found at yard sale consisted of one round disc with a beveled edge, a circular saw blade, and another piece, half round on top and rectangular down below. A wingnut and bolt through the centers. Took me a while to realize it was a homemade saw vise for circular saw blades and was meant to be clamped in a bench vise. These days, carpenters here will toss a $60, 12” carbide chop saw blade every couple of hours and put on a new one. They don’t even bother taking them to be sharpened.

  23. #15
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15,863

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    ...They don’t even bother taking them to be sharpened.
    It's been so long since I've been able to find someone to sharpen carbide tipped blades properly without overcharging that I suspect they gave up getting blades sharpened. Lots of people recommend Forrest for sharpening, but they will only do high quality blades, so those $60 chop saw blades are probably pretty much disposable these days.

  24. #16
    Registered User tree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,570

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    . . .I think the teeth on my dovetail saws are sharpened for cross cutting.
    Looking at the kerf in your 2nd photo, I wondered if that was the case.

    You are spot on about having a good sharp dovetail saw and learning to use it. Same goes for any hand saw that is correct for the job.
    Clark Beavans

  25. #17
    Registered User Schneidly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    Thank you John and everyone else for your replies! I will keep my eye out for a true dovetail saw instead. Admittedly I was trying to see if that much cheaper saw would work, but it sounds like spending more for a true dovetail saw, or finding a used one somewhere, will yield a much better result. Thank you all for your insights.

  26. #18
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    2,758

    Default Re: Dove Tail Joint

    There is an old guy about 4 blocks from my shop that has a great saw & tool sharpening shop. He has been at the same location since he got back from Korea & started the business. Great work & fantastic old school prices...
    www.condino.com

    Crafted by hand in a workshop powered by the sun.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •