Help dating an old Sicilian mandolin

[seppokaljamaha]

Hi. I recently got this old mandolin (that is currently being professionally restored) made by Rosario Porto & Figli. I've been trying to find out more information about the company and the possible age of my mandolin, but have come awfully short. Does anybody have any ideas on as to when it could've been made? Any information about the wood being used would also be appreciated, although because of it's dirtiness it's understandable if that isn't possible.
Thanks for reading, have a blessed day :)

[poul hansen]

Hi. I recently got this old mandolin (that is currently being professionally restored) made by Rosario Porto & Figli. I've been trying to find out more information about the company and the possible age of my mandolin, but have come awfully short. Does anybody have any ideas on as to when it could've been made? Any information about the wood being used would also be appreciated, although because of it's dirtiness it's understandable if that isn't possible.
Thanks for reading, have a blessed day

Look up other well documented Italian mandolins from 1890 to 1920 and the wood types are probably the same for yours.
Also the endpiece and tuners. Those things didn't vary very much within the same years and they bought from the same few vendors in the area.

The edge bindings were also very similar. I suspect they were also bought from a specialist shop or even outsourced.

You can compare labels also from guitars and see when your lable was utilised.

[NickR]

The clamshell tailpiece appears to be American- so it may be a replacement.

[Tavy]

What you have there is a fairly basic Sicilian mandolin from around 1900-ish. And yes, the tailpiece looks to be a modern replacement. Might end up a decent players instrument - you will have to see - but is unlikely to ever have much value I'm afraid. That said, if it costs you a couple hundred Euro to fix up, you will likely get your moneys worth in playing fun (it's still a cheap mandolin after all) even if resale value doesn't reflect that.

[seppokaljamaha]

I agree, after looking through other mandolins from similar age the tailpiece is 100% a replacement. But, as long as it's a good instrument to play I have no problems with a low resale value, I got it for my own enjoyment afterall haha. Yes, a couple hundred euros was the price of fixing it up, and from what I've heard from other customers the luthier really knows his stuff, so I can't wait until I get my hands on it once it's done! Thank you for your reply

[seppokaljamaha]

After some digging around I came across a few guitars from the same company with the same sort of round, red lable, and they both were from around 1890 - 1900. So, at least for now I'll conclude the instrument is from about the same era. Thank you for your reply

[brunello97]

I'm with John on this....these MOR Italian / Sicilian mandolins can be very nice players...if they are playable...and have a bright "shimmering sound" as our friend, Martin Jonas, so wonderfully put it.

A little more background: this mandolin is very much in the Vinaccia-n tradition. The body shape, scratchplate shape, and the "open book" style headstock were very influential. The Vinaccia family had a long and storied history of mandolin making from the 18th-20th c. and their designs were very influential in Italy, Sicily and the US.

The woods? Likely a rosewood (what Euro folks refer to as palisander) bowl and a spruce top.

Often the necks were made of some softwood with a thin veneer covering. I can't really tell from your photos.

That said, the string height / action on the mandolin looks rather beastly in the third of your photos.

This can be devilishly difficult to correct. If at all possible.

Before dropping your 200E on a repair, I'd be sure to check with your luthier to make sure they have a strategery for addressing what is likely an issue with the mandolin's neck having rotated up out of position.

We've seen all to many of these otherwise modest, but delightful mandolins in this condition.

...And John has repaired many of them, but may have a different take than mine on the feasibility of this repair.

A few more photos...side views in particular as well as sighting down the neck....would help get a better idea of condition.

Mick

[seppokaljamaha]

That is really interesting, thanks a lot for the background!
The action does look quite horrific in the third pic I'll give you that, thankfully in real life while still being high (which the luthier said he'd fix) it's not as high as it seems in the picture. I'll ask him tomorrow about his strategy to fixing it, it's been a while since I took to the workshop, and I remember him saying then that he had a plan, but silly old me didn't ask him what that plan actually was haha. I sadly can't take any more pictures because of the mandolin no longer being with me, but I do remember that the top had warped inward somewhat around the fingerboard (which could be causing the view of the high action come to think of it). I must admit my relative lack of knowledge about repairing instruments, so I don't know how easy/hard that is to fix.

[NickR]

Much of the metalware on American instruments was made in Germany- this is even more true of European made instruments in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It may be that the "clam shell" tailpieces we see on American made instruments from this period were German made. On that basis, it is possible that some were supplied to European makers and as this mandolin is in Europe, that may have happened although it would be unusual as we don't see this type on European instruments. Sometimes a replacement is obvious as the holes do not match up and there are extra holes but that may not always be the case.

[Tavy]

The neck angle issue come up so often, that I made a short video showing how to check if it's OK or not on these:

[brunello97]

Much of the metalware on American instruments was made in Germany- this is even more true of European made instruments in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It may be that the "clam shell" tailpieces we see on American made instruments from this period were German made. On that basis, it is possible that some were supplied to European makers and as this mandolin is in Europe, that may have happened although it would be unusual as we don't see this type on European instruments. Sometimes a replacement is obvious as the holes do not match up and there are extra holes but that may not always be the case.

Nick, weren't the common Waverly "cloud" tailpieces made in NYC?

Mick