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Thread: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

  1. #1

    Default Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    It goes by many names.
    I am curious if anyone has seen a carved top?
    The body style is classic as a flat top, but I was wondering if anyone has seen a carved top with a little more arc than a typical flat braced top.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    The specs for my Sawchyn Beavertail flattie listed it as domed and when I asked Peter Sawchyn about his reply was 'Hi, the tops on our BeaverTails are solid Sitka and have a fifteen inch radius in them, not carved. This helps with sound and projection and top sag.'

    So not carved but maybe not exactly flat either?

    Rob

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    "Carved top pancake Flatiron" seems like an oxymoron. There were a few Flatiron "pancakes" made with f-holes, I believe, but not with carved tops. One of the f-hole "Flatties" is depicted in this thread; look at the 2018 posts.
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  5. #4

    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    Yes, the arch adds a lot to the original in terms of strength and projection. I was just wondering if any builder has tried a carved top. The design of the Army/Navy is a classic, and it would be interesting to see if a carved top would improve it or not.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    Oxymoron...yes. I was thinking more along the line of the nice body style of an Arm/Navy. And if a carved top has been tried.

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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    That style of mandolin is used in the Celtic tradition. Graham Macdonald provides building instructions for one in his book "The Mandolin Project". And tho it is not a true "Flat Iron" body, there is no reason one can't be built.
    Charley

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  9. #7

    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    That style of mandolin is used in the Celtic tradition. Graham Macdonald provides building instructions for one in his book "The Mandolin Project". And tho it is not a true "Flat Iron" body, there is no reason one can't be built.
    Thanks Charley,
    I have just about completed one using Gaham's book. That is what got me thinking about a flatiron version. But it doesn't seem that anyone has combined the flatiron style with a simple carved top.

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  10. #8
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    Well, you could be the first! If you pursue it keep us up to date.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  11. #9

    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    Thanks Charley,
    I think it would make a great crossover mandolin, for a lot of music styles

  12. #10

    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    I guess if you surf the web long enough, you can find just about anything.
    Here is a carved top Army-Navy style from the UK:

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    I'm not sure if the carved top works on this style. What do you think?

  13. #11
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    Quote Originally Posted by Tukanu View Post
    I guess if you surf the web long enough, you can find just about anything.
    Here is a carved top Army-Navy style from the UK:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm not sure if the carved top works on this style. What do you think?
    I love the look! I'm curious about the tone/sound produced though??? The thing that I love most about flat tops is all the ringing overtones and textures... less focused-ness of carved top styles. Looks wonderful though.

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    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    I started way back with a flat, round, shallow Army/Navy style mandolin, then went to a deeper cittern-type body shape with a slightly domed top. No carving there. But I seem to recall Brian Dean maybe 15 years ago using the phrase "wee-bit carved" in advertising one of his flat-top models. Sounded interesting, but I never heard any details about the process. Does anyone here know anything about those instruments?

  16. #13
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    That looks interesting but I would definitely go with a round vs oval sound hole and a rosette for more of a traditional "Army-Navy" look. I would also use a light X-brace for the carved top.
    It might be fun to build a flat top and an arched top using the same materials and compare them when done.
    Charley

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  17. #14

    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    That looks interesting but I would definitely go with a round vs oval sound hole and a rosette for more of a traditional "Army-Navy" look. I would also use a light X-brace for the carved top.
    It might be fun to build a flat top and an arched top using the same materials and compare them when done.
    Agreed. My first thought was the oval looks out of place. Also, the re-curve around the perimeter looks right on a F-style but maybe not on an Army-Navy. It stands out too much. An A/N is at it's best when it is simplified.

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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    David, I think you are on the right track, run with it!
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    I think it would visually work better without the recurve and just a convex curve side to side. You can always thin what would be the recurve area on the inside to maintain a thicker binding edge. Perhaps a lower arch and a low bridge and less neck angle to find a sound between a fully carved and a arched over braces flattop.

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  23. #17

    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham McDonald View Post
    I think it would visually work better without the recurve and just a convex curve side to side. You can always thin what would be the recurve area on the inside to maintain a thicker binding edge. Perhaps a lower arch and a low bridge and less neck angle to find a sound between a fully carved and a arched over braces flattop.
    Thanks Graham. Good suggestions for an Army-Navy style. I am finishing up on the Celtic from your book. It has been an invaluable source of information. I appreciate not only the "how to do it" but also the "why" to do it. Thank you for putting it together. I skipped the recurve to simplify the design. For an Army-Navy, I think I will also skip the "hump" under the fret board end.

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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    "Carved top pancake Flatiron" seems like an oxymoron.
    This phrase would rank with "bone-in fillet of beef."

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  26. #19

    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    Quote Originally Posted by rickbella View Post
    This phrase would rank with "bone-in fillet of beef."
    With a side of gravy

  27. #20
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    https://larkinthemorning.com/collect...34426398572712

    Here's another example of a carved a/n style I just saw. I actually really like the look of this one with all its fancy appointments.
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    Registered User Cary Fagan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    This doesn't quite qualify but I think is close enough to mention. 1930s Porayko mandolin (which I posted about back in 2012) handmade in Hamilton, Ontario.Click image for larger version. 

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  31. #22

    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    I decided to go ahead and build a carved top Army Navy...AN for short. You can follow my progress in the builder's section under the title "Building the carved top Army Navy. Thanks for all the info and suggestions in this thread.

  32. #23
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Question Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    A Friend had an Original Olive Drab painted Army/Navy Gibson Mandolin, It's Top was quite Flat, as I Recall .
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  34. #24

    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    The originals were flat and lightly braced. As a result, they began to concave. I have restored a couple and added replacement braceswith a gentle arc to resist the bridge pressure that seems to affect all those old original AN's.
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    Last edited by Tukanu; Dec-27-2021 at 5:34pm.

  35. #25
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    Default Re: Carved top Army Navy Pancake Flatiron

    It is a surprise to me too. One of the defining characteristics of the Army Navy and really all "pancake" mandolins is that they are flat tops. To many folks the Army Navy would be the go-to flattop.

    But ok, creativity sometimes involves pushing boundaries. Someone had to be the first take a perfectly good hamburger and try and make it a BLT.
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