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Thread: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

  1. #1
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    Default Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    Any tips for chording with a medium hard pick, say the Dunlop Prime Tone large triangle 1.4/1.5? These don't give much, and with a soft grip the tendency is for my pick tip to rotate towards the tailpiece and/or gradually slip outwards, resulting in more projection from my hand than I want. The translucent Prime Tone 1.5mm with the moulded in fine dimple grip slips less than the smooth and opaque 1.4mm, but to my ear the smooth 1.5 sounds better (sod's law). I assume they're a different plastic mix, and I don't think the translucent pick with the grip is available in 1.4mm.

    I don't now find the pick slipping a big problem when playing tunes, I have more trouble on quick 'chopping' style chords, when a loose grip occasionally results in me dropping it. I have an idea that playing with a beginner's tight pick grip contributed to right arm golfer's elbow that's almost gone now, and I don't want to cause that again.

    Is the answer technique, or 'use a more flexible pick for that style playing'? I'd rather avoid using Gorrilla Snot (a drumstick grip compound) etc. if possible, as it would probably get all over my fiddle bow.

    Thanks, Max

  2. #2
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    I can't really comment on your technique as I've never seen you play. But it sounds like you're not "death gripping" your pick so that's good. A loose grip is better.

    I wouldn't think you need to go lighter. A lot of Mandolin players, myself included, use picks around that same thickness (1mm-2mm) and don't have too much difficulty chopping without losing their pick angle or attack.

    I can honestly say that a great deal of practice helps. Chop slowly and produce that percussive sound! It takes a while to become proficient at new things. You got this!

    Also, and I am absolutely not trying to make this another "which pick is better" thread, but that same thing happened for me when chopping with Primetone smooth picks. They would spin like a top in my hand which only made me "death grip" that thing until I would drop it! This is my experience, others around here love them.

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    Registered User Willi Bahrenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    I can honestly say that a great deal of practice helps. Chop slowly and produce that percussive sound! It takes a while to become proficient at new things. You got this!
    Absolutely this! When I started out the pick rotation thing was driving me crazy. I tried different picks and even tried to fix it into place with duct tape.

    Eventually the problem just went away by itself. After a certain amount of practice you'll find yourself subconsciously making microadjustments with your fingers to maintain a proper pick hold.

    So: Happy pickin!

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  6. #4

    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    I had the same problem when I first started playing….

    This stuff helped a lot: it’s called Gorilla Snot, a tiny dab locks the pick to your fingers…

    https://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Snot-.../dp/B0002GL5S8

    If you just keep playing, the pick issues go away after a few years… you can jam all day and never even think about your pick…
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  7. #5

    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    I use a Dunlop Primetone 1.5 smooth triangle and use the small sticky dots that you put on the pick itself. I tried Gorilla Snot but don't like how it feels. The dots work well. I don't recall what they are called. Perhaps someone here knows. I think I may have gotten them from Amazon.

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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    Apparently many of us experience pick rotation. I’ve noticed that part of my problem is index finger opening up. Concentrating on keeping it in that closed fist position might help. Over time, my issues have resolved somewhat. Part of my solution is quick pick adjustment on the fly.
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    Agree, the pick rotation issue will work itself out with experience. As an inexpensive trial maybe try drilling a few small holes in the pick where you hold it, a la Wegen. I’ve got a couple of Gravity picks with holes as well and they seem to help. I usually play a Blue Chip, which really stays in the hand nicely. V Picks and Gravity are probably the next “stickiest” picks I’ve played, for less expensive alternatives to Blue Chip (though they have very different tone and pick click than my Blue Chips and are NOT suggested as in the same class as BC). Hang in there, it will get better!

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  13. #8

    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    Most people dig too deeply into the strings when picking. You should just brush across the top of them. Brian Kimsey made comment on this once on the old Flatpick-L list that he aims for the top third of the string both in picking and strumming. One talented young player I know describes it as dancing across the strings. That approach cures a number of issues including helping a lot with speed.

    The pick should not extend too far from your fingers. Just the tip should be exposed. Sometimes a slight rotation of the pick in the plane of the strings will help.

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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    Not sure if this will help with your issue. I sand a bevel into the leading edge of the pick (think downstroke) and on the opposite side ( upstroke). I know Weagan picks are beveled this way. I use a Elderly x-heavy pick ($.25). I prefer this to all the other picks I’ve tried.

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    Dave Sheets
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    I used to have this problem, I don't seem to any more. But, when this was happening to me, I found the Blue Chip picks to be easier to keep in place than anything else I tried. They are pricey, but it did help.
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    are yo u holding it the way Sierra Hull, Thile and Mike Marshall show in their youtube vids? It's pretty rotate-proof. You could also try cork or textured rubber strips on your pick, cut them up, make a thin triangle that your fingerpad will fit into

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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    I don't know if this would work for you but how about scratching the surface of your smooth pick for better grip?
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    A softer pick will help you work to overcome this, they can be much more forgiving. If you practice feeling a ‘small bite’ with your pick, as suggested above, your technique may improve to allow a stiffer pick, if you want.

    Evan Marshall plays with a really flexible pick and he’s amazing. Other pros play with much stiffer picks.

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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxr View Post
    Any tips for chording with a medium hard pick, say the Dunlop Prime Tone large triangle 1.4/1.5? These don't give much, and with a soft grip the tendency is for my pick tip to rotate towards the tailpiece and/or gradually slip outwards, resulting in more projection from my hand than I want. The translucent Prime Tone 1.5mm with the moulded in fine dimple grip slips less than the smooth and opaque 1.4mm, but to my ear the smooth 1.5 sounds better (sod's law). I assume they're a different plastic mix, and I don't think the translucent pick with the grip is available in 1.4mm.

    I don't now find the pick slipping a big problem when playing tunes, I have more trouble on quick 'chopping' style chords, when a loose grip occasionally results in me dropping it. I have an idea that playing with a beginner's tight pick grip contributed to right arm golfer's elbow that's almost gone now, and I don't want to cause that again.

    Is the answer technique, or 'use a more flexible pick for that style playing'? I'd rather avoid using Gorrilla Snot (a drumstick grip compound) etc. if possible, as it would probably get all over my fiddle bow.

    Thanks, Max
    An old banjo trick to keep your fimgerpicks on. Lick the contact area of your picking fingers.

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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    I would add to the good advice already posted here with the following: when chopping, don't be afraid to let things ring just a hair, and not always be all dry and purely percussive. This makes both pick grip easier and, subjectively, better rhythm playing. Sometimes it gets a little TOO snappy these days.A nice chop will have a good balance of muting and a hint of note separation to maintain the flavor of the chord.

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  29. #16

    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    Agreed; really good advice here. I used to have a great deal of trouble with pick rotation. I eventually set the goal of re-working my right hand technique entirely, for more reasons than just that. Working to keep the closed (but not rigid) fist and to dig less into the strings as described above was worth the time and more. And funnily enough the pick rotation issue got solved along the way and I hadn’t even thought about it until reading this thread. I also use a very rigid pick.

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  31. #17
    Registered User Tim C.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    By the way it's called "strumming" - chord is a noun and never a verb in music.
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    According to more than one online dictionary, 'Chording' is the present participle of the verb 'to chord' - and 'strumming' describes one specific rhythmic form of chording. Pedantry is 'so fun'

  33. #19
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    Yes it is the present participle of “to chord”, that is, to make a chord, not to strum a chord.
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  34. #20
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    I guess 'chording' is a left hand activity, and 'strumming' a right hand one - or maybe the other way round if you're left handed.

  35. #21
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    I tried most of the good advice given above, and a few ideas of my own. All those larger triangular picks move around on me when I play. One day I happen to pick up a “standard” shaped pick—think of all the free or cheap picks you find anywhere. The elongated triangular ones. I use one of the two rounded corners with the “pointed” end pointing away from the strings. It seems that more of the flesh on my thumb and index finger overlaps the edges of those smaller picks and sort of locks them in place.

    I’ve since bought some of that shape pick of every brand or type of material—including a Blue Chip. It’s worth a try, at least.

  36. #22
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    If you are playing harder don't hit the strings parallel with the pick, angle the pick so there is less resistance and it won't be so prone to slipping. You can grip harder when angling the pick as it will glide thru the strings easier.
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  37. #23
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    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    There should be a chord sound, a very brief ring,if you will. This total percussion sound is new and I hate it. Some don't even make chords, just lay fingers across strings and strike.!!!!!!

  38. #24

    Default Re: Tips for chording with a hard(ish) pick?

    I had the same issue with the pick shifting in my hand while playing chop chords. It'll iron itself out with time. Just keep doing it, try not to be too tight or too loose, and you'll get there eventually. The more I study music the more I realize that the answer to almost every issue is time and practice.

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