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Thread: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

  1. #26
    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Whatever happened to the Loar that was being listed from Greece? (I think). A lot of advice suggested the seller list it with a good dealer here in the states.
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  2. #27
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    One of the easiest ways I know to lose money is to buy a musical instrument as an investment. That isn't saying that nobody makes money buying and selling instruments, they do, even me in the past.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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  4. #28
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Hard to say why the seller doesn't want to list it with a known dealer, but the person probably has a clear idea of what they want to do.

    Locally, there has been a nice, low professional level violin for sale on CL for over 2 years. He never posts more photos or links to sound or anything. And never has budged with the price. We have a couple of very nice violin shops that could probably move it for him, but that's obviously not happening.

    Am a serial buyer and seller so if something like that were to fall in my lap, it wouldn't stay long befire moving it along to someone else. After playing it and getting used to it, of course.

    The few times I've bought for an investment have done poorly due to life circumstances suddenly popping up and needing cash quickly.
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  5. #29
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    One of the easiest ways I know to lose money is to buy a musical instrument as an investment...
    Yeah, I lose on every sale -- but I make it up through volume...

    My wife Joan used to collect dolls. One of the mistakes she made was buying new dolls that were advertised as "collectible." With the proliferation of internet sales, there were soon hundreds of examples of "collectible" individual and series dolls available, at prices well below the original retail. Vintage dolls did tend to increase in price, but unevenly -- and suddenly prices were competing in a national, sometimes international, market.

    I traded in a '50's Gibson F-5 I'd owned for maybe 30 years, and got twice what I paid for it as a trade-in allowance. But of course, that's not the same as a cash sale. Buy 'em to play, or because you enjoy 'em, and hope that the vagaries of the market will allow you to at least break even when and if you sell or trade 'em.

    Sage advice -- that I don't always follow...
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  6. #30
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    I can’t remember ever selling an instrument which is why I have so many. (OK, I did once trade in one of my then two Martin D18s for part of a National RM-1 and made £700 profit.) Most of them are worth significantly more than I paid for them which has been a good investment. Fortunately, I have no wish or need to sell any of them so whether they’ve been a good investment or not is irrelevant.

  7. #31
    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    [thread hijack]
    Hey Journeybear - is that new avatar a group photo of the Pogo bunch? They are still cogent. And memorable.

    "Deck us all with bowels of Harley ... "
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  9. #32
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Why, yes, yes it is - without Pogo. Maybe the ol' possum wasn't a player. It's about my favorite comic strip of all time, "Calvin And Hobbs" notwithstanding. And what better way to observe the holiday season?

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    If I recall correctly, this song would appear every Christmas-ish, with variations. And this may present them all, at least most.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  11. #33
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Deck us all with Boston Charlie has been a favorite of mine for over 60 years.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  13. #34
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Another scenario I have run through my mind often is that, again, were I to win, inherit, or be gifted a signed Loar, I might go into a small business of renting it out to pro players to gig with. I would, of course, acquire all the appropriate insurances that go with such a business. I know folks that do this with fine violins. One in particular whose Stradivarious Cello has been rented constantly for a few years.

    In my fantasy I would make a little money, and get to meet and interact with many of my heros. And if i wanted to incur opportunity costs I could play it some myself.
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  14. #35
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Deck us all with Boston Charlie has been a favorite of mine for over 60 years.
    Mine too, though I can't swear my awareness of this gem goes back quite that far. Here's more, including all six "official" verses.

    Upon further inspection, the previously posted link is not a collection of versions, but a book of sorts detailing some folderol between Churchey and Howland, followed by a history of sorts about the song - or so it seems. One never knows where Walt Kelly's inventive mind might wander ... I'll wager that if one were able to find a copy of this surely very rare item, it may be purchased for considerably less than a retopped F-5.

    [Think it's easy restoring a derailed train of thought to the original track? It's not, it certainly is not.]
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  16. #36
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Another scenario I have run through my mind often is that, again, were I to win, inherit, or be gifted a signed Loar, I might go into a small business of renting it out to pro players to gig with. I would, of course, acquire all the appropriate insurances that go with such a business. I know folks that do this with fine violins. One in particular whose Stradivarious Cello has been rented constantly for a few years.
    Now if only someone would do that with the Stradivarius mandolin.

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    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

    Furthering Mandolin Consciousness

    Finders Keepers, my duo with the astoundingly talented and versatile Patti Rothberg. Our EP is finally done, and available! PM me, while they last!

  17. #37
    Registered User David Rambo's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Man, I miss Pogo. (and Calvin and Hobbs, too)
    "Put your hands to the wood
    Touch the music put there by the summer sun and wind
    The rhythms of the rain, locked within the rings
    And let your fingers find The Music in the Wood."
    Joe Grant and Al Parrish (chorus from The Music in the Wood)

  18. #38

    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    My take is that any vintage instrument that is refinished and repaired reduces the potential customer base dramatically, compared to a nice original or even a somewhat worn original.

    Wayne Henderson has a great reputation and his stuff sells for premium prices. A quick online survey of used Henderson instruments showed asking prices of $12K (mandolin) up to $20-36K for certain guitar models -- no telling what the actual selling prices are. What is an instrument repaired by Henderson worth? I don't know...

    Recently, we heard about the so-called "very first" Loar that was repaired by Gilchrist. I never heard what it actually sold for, maybe someone here has that info? Gilchrist being another high-end builder and repairman.

    To my way of thinking, some documentation could be established first with better/more photos. Second, photos of labels/signature/serial number. Third, a letter from Henderson stating the work done. Lastly, an independent appraisal from Carter, Gruhn, Elderly, etc., confirming originality. This would give a starting point for a sales pitch, IMHO.

    Even with all that, you are still dealing with a heavily repaired instrument. OTOH, it is very attractive. Price, if negotiable, could also be a factor in getting someone to "pull the trigger." Another factor is "how does it sound?"

    As Mike said, a correct case would go a long way in helping the sale. I remember in the vintage guitar community, 30 or so years ago, there were so many well-done 50's Flying V and Explorer counterfeits floating around that the only way to know for sure was if the guitar had its original case -- all the fakes were in newer cases, it turned out. Not to say this "Loar" if a fake, I certainly don't know, but a correct case would eliminate the question (of the case.)

    Interesting mandolin and story, for sure!

  19. #39
    Registered User Glassweb's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    I wouldn't touch this one...

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  21. #40
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    I'd like to hear it, though ...
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

    Furthering Mandolin Consciousness

    Finders Keepers, my duo with the astoundingly talented and versatile Patti Rothberg. Our EP is finally done, and available! PM me, while they last!

  22. #41
    Registered User j4music's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Love the trip down memory lane. I do miss Pogo and Calvin & Hobbes. Also Doonesbury, especially the totally outrageous Duke; he still comes to mind when I see a Washington Football Team game.

    Back to this Loar. Stephen Gilchrist repaired the top of no.1, so you still have the original instrument. Wayne Henderson retopped this Loar; there is no dispute over the quality of his work, but the instrument is no longer the original instrument. The question becomes what is it and what's its value.

    Harkening back to the retopped 1936 Martin D-28, it seems to me the closest comparables would be their various pre-war reissues, or another maker, including Wayne Henderson, of similar instruments. Martins would be under 10k. Add Brazilian, and this is the biggest thing going for that guitar, and you're in the 15 - 20k neighbourhood. That Martin started at 45 and is now 28,500. There is a premium for its age, and a reasonable estimate might be 18 - 20k.

    Apply the same approach to the Loar. One place to start might be a 30s or 40s Gibson F5 that Randy Woods modified. The ask is typically about 35K, and they won't sell for less than 20k. The ask on originals of this era can be about 45k, and I would defer to the many members who are more familiar with these instruments than I am. But I wonder if an appropriate range for a retopped Loar might be in this 35 - 45k range.

  23. #42
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Speaking of ...


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  25. #43
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Well, J4, that re-topped D-28 has been at Elderly for a very long time. I think this is the second price drop. We'll see whether it sells or not. An original '36 might bring somewhere around 90 to maybe 120, depending on condition. One that had extensive finish work would sell for much less.

    The 3 Loars I know of that have sold in the last year were listed from around 100 to 125, and were all in reasonably good and original condition. I don't know what the actual selling prices were.

    Although the F-5 and D-28 markets do not necessarily function in the same manner, I would make a wild guess that the Craigslist Loar wouldn't bring much more than 35, if that much; even with a letter of provenance from Wayne Henderson and a letter of authentication from George Gruhn. The pool of buyers for high-end instruments is quite small, and most of those buyers wouldn't consider a re-topped instrument, even if the top was made by a master. This one will be hard to sell.

  26. #44
    Registered User Glassweb's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    I know of two nice, clean Loars that sold in 2021 for $90K. One of them to legendary player.

  27. #45
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Was that for each or for both? If it were for both, someone got a good deal. Well, for this ballpark. Pretty nice park.

    Never mind. Pretty sure you meant for each.

    I'm glad so many people have been piqued by Pogo. For anyone wondering about the origins of its use as my avatar ... A few years ago I was wondering about the words to "Deck Us All," and, in the process of my research, came across two images of some of the gang engaged in musical activity. Seemed most appropriate for me to use one during the holidaze. I almost forgot this year. Here you go, for your downloading ease and pleasure.

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    The first included several musical instruments; the second, just the bell. And neither includes Pogo. I went with the first; it just seemed merrier and more cacophonous.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Finders Keepers, my duo with the astoundingly talented and versatile Patti Rothberg. Our EP is finally done, and available! PM me, while they last!

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  29. #46
    Registered User Glassweb's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    uh... that would be for each...

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  31. #47
    Registered User j4music's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Another approach to retopped or renecked instruments simply says that this reduces the instrument's value by 60%. If current Loars are selling for 90k, this would put the Craigslist Loar at $36,000, consistent with what rcc56 suggested.

  32. #48
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by Glassweb View Post
    I know of two nice, clean Loars that sold in 2021 for $90K. One of them to legendary player.
    Which is why $45K would be a more reasonable price for a retopped one.

    Maybe part of the reason it's on CL is that the owner can't find an established dealer who'll list it for $85K.
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