Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 38

Thread: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

  1. #1
    small instrument, big fun Dan in NH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Location
    Nashua NH
    Posts
    835

    Default Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    My wife is Boston Irish. She grew up in the same triple decker apartment her mother grew up in, in a Boston neighborhood that to this day she refers to as "that Irish ghetto."

    So naturally as soon as I got my mandolin I googled the mandolin tabs for Irish Washerwoman, and I have made that a major component of my mandolin practice. I'm glad to say the experiment was successful - My wife HATES IT. Although I have noticed that suddenly Guinness has appeared in our refrigerator. Pleasant side effect, that.

    A few weeks ago I was playing my guitar, and on a lark I googled the guitar tabs for Irish Washerwoman. I have to say it's a far more difficult piece on guitar than on mandolin, forcing me to move my hand up and down the neck several times.

    Is the mandolin just "easier" or "better" for playing single note melody?
    Eastman MD-514 (F body, Sitka & maple, oval hole)
    Klos Carbon Fiber (on order)

    And still saving my nickels & dimes & bottle caps & breakfast cereal box tops for my lifetime mandolin.

  2. #2
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Saint Augustine Beach FL
    Posts
    6,618

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Depends on the melody. If the melody was originally written for violin, It would transfer to the mandolin quite well. If the melody was originally written for guitar, it might not be so easy on the mandolin.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  3. #3
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    3,856

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Quote Originally Posted by phydaux View Post
    Is the mandolin just "easier" or "better" for playing single note melody?
    Yes

    (In all seriousness, the shorter scale and tuning in fifths make it a much more intuitive instrument for playing melodies, at least for me; conversely, the longer scale and tuning of the guitar lend themselves in my mind to chording)
    1924 Gibson A Snakehead
    2005 National RM-1
    2007 Hester A5
    2009 Passernig A5
    2015 Black A2-z
    2010 Black GBOM
    2017 Poe Scout
    2014 Smart F-Style Mandola
    2018 Vessel TM5
    2019 Hogan F5

  4. #4
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Auburn, Washington
    Posts
    1,551

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    I had a Guitar background before learning Mandolin years ago and it's easier for me on Mandolin. 5ths tuning makes things a lot less complicated for me and also I practice a lot more single note play on Mandolin. I guess it's what I put my efforts towards.
    Worlds okay-ist mandolin player

    Relative newcomer

    Weber Yellowstone F (2015)
    Red Valley EM (2018)
    Howard Morris Blue A4 (2023)
    Flatiron 1N (1982)

    https://youtube.com/@zachwilson54?si=iGum4xPlSj0pbcjj

  5. #5
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Posts
    2,771

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Some Django licks, like the melody of ‘Appel Indirect’ are easy on guitar but a nightmare on mandolin. For me anyway.

    Licks built around specific fingerings on one instrument do not necessarily transfer easily to others.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow Manouche
    Arrow Jazzbo
    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Gibson F5L
    Gibson A-4
    Ratliff CountryBoy A

  6. #6

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    Some Django licks, like the melody of ‘Appel Indirect’ are easy on guitar but a nightmare on mandolin. For me anyway.

    Licks built around specific fingerings on one instrument do not necessarily transfer easily to others.
    My experience also. But I LOVE Django licks, so I continue to pursue them on the mandolin and it has greatly increased my dexterity.

    I also found a book of Grappelli licks, and those are much easier to handle on the mandolin, until he goes into the stratosphere and then I transpose down an octave.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    297

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    I wonder if the guitar tab you are playing is more difficult than how you are playing it on mandolin. Since you mention moving up and down the neck on guitar some part must written in a higher octave. A good comparison would be to play on both instruments in the first position with no shifting.
    Pava S/N 21
    Calace Bowlback

  8. #8

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Easier to do badly. Harder to do well.

  9. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to OldSausage For This Useful Post:


  10. #9
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Rochester NY 14610
    Posts
    17,378

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    You go further on each string in first position on mandolin, since it's tuned in fifths, guitar (basically) fourths. Also, the neck's smaller, the frets closer together.

    I oversimplify and say the mandolin's built for melody, the guitar for chords -- though I know you can play both on either instrument.
    Allen Hopkins
    Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
    Natl Triolian Dobro mando
    Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
    H-O mandolinetto
    Stradolin Vega banjolin
    Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
    Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
    Flatiron 3K OM

  11. The following members say thank you to allenhopkins for this post:


  12. #10
    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Co. Mayo, Ireland
    Posts
    3,569

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Well in fairness, "The Irish Washerwoman" is a pretty simple tune, hence it's one of the many common tunes that learners start out with so I wouldn't be using it as a barometer at all - there are way more interesting tunes out there to learn and play. Indeed if I wanted to put someone off of irish trad music I would probably just play the Irish Washerwoman over and over til their ears bled. No offence meant, it's just that as an Irish person I always associate that tune with "stage oirish" cliched portrayals of Irish people in film and on the telly.

    As David so accurately put it, single note melody is "easy to do badly, harder to do well". Learning to play like Martin Howley below for example, wouldn't be something categorised as "easy":

    2018 Girouard Concert oval A
    2015 JP "Whitechapel" tenor banjo
    2018 Frank Tate tenor guitar
    1969 Martin 00-18




    my Youtube channel

  13. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Jill McAuley For This Useful Post:


  14. #11
    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Peace and Love
    Posts
    2,403

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    The Irish Washerwoman has been used to ridicule ethnic groups, nations and races in the past, so it may be understandable that people may not like it.
    You could learn this one too, https://thesession.org/tunes/9468
    It’s perhaps from the Welsh original tune Dargason, from the 16th century that was later reworked by Holst (at 7:56)


    https://youtu.be/04U-PQuDq-s&t=7:58

    And then perhaps played in a mocking Irish style as the Irish Washerwoman.


  15. The following members say thank you to Simon DS for this post:


  16. #12
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Auburn, Washington
    Posts
    1,551

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jill McAuley View Post
    Learning to play like Martin Howley below for example, wouldn't be something categorised as "easy":

    Thank you for re-posting this. I somehow missed it (my social media timeliness are saturated with Mando-content and sometimes things fall through the cracks .). Very wonderful playing. I love the tone he, literally, pulls out!
    Worlds okay-ist mandolin player

    Relative newcomer

    Weber Yellowstone F (2015)
    Red Valley EM (2018)
    Howard Morris Blue A4 (2023)
    Flatiron 1N (1982)

    https://youtube.com/@zachwilson54?si=iGum4xPlSj0pbcjj

  17. The following members say thank you to Zach Wilson for this post:


  18. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Hiram, Maine
    Posts
    250

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon DS View Post
    The Irish Washerwoman has been used to ridicule ethnic groups, nations and races in the past, so it may be understandable that people may not like it.
    It also might be due to the fact that it's just an awful tune.

  19. The following members say thank you to Mainer73 for this post:


  20. #14

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainer73 View Post
    It also might be due to the fact that it's just an awful tune.
    Are you able to describe what is bad about this tune, just point out one or two of its most obvious flaws?

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to OldSausage For This Useful Post:


  22. #15

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    So well said. A lot of wisdom behind your words. I'm a newbie to the mando but have played guitar for decades.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    Easier to do badly. Harder to do well.

  23. #16

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    How utterly delightful! Thank you for sharing.

  24. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Hiram, Maine
    Posts
    250

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    Are you able to describe what is bad about this tune, just point out one or two of its most obvious flaws?
    Admittedly, it's subjective. However, if you were to poll a cross-section of Irish musicians I can almost guarantee that you'd get a lot of eye rolls at the mention of that tune. Plus, it's English...

  25. The following members say thank you to Mainer73 for this post:


  26. #18

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Much easier to play fiddle tunes on mandolin. I think it's because you need to change strings with the pick much less often, and very rarely need to jump a string (due to the 5th tuning as pointed out already).

    And on the Irish Washerwoman... it has the misfortune to be overplayed and recorded in a very stilted way that doesn't do it justice (to me at least).

    If think it's really just a bad tune, give this a listen. If it doesn't change your mind, nothing will!

    (You'll have to click Watch on YouTube below - seems it can't be embedded - it's at about 1:48, but the entire set is well worth a listen and The Irish Washerwoman sounds especially good after the other two IMO)



  27. #19
    Registered User lowtone2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lower alabama
    Posts
    892

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    Easier to do badly. Harder to do well.
    Exactly! Right hand technique for mandolin is much harder than guitar ( to do well).

  28. #20

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Quote Originally Posted by phydaux View Post
    Is the mandolin just "easier" or "better" for playing single note melody?
    Yes, much easier, especially if playing fiddle tunes of course.

  29. #21
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Rochester NY 14610
    Posts
    17,378

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon DS View Post
    The Irish Washerwoman has been used to ridicule ethnic groups, nations and races in the past, so it may be understandable that people may not like it...
    I assume you're referring to the Irishman's Shanty lyrics, or the Paddy and the Rats mash-up (a Hungarian Celtic-punk band?? Evidence of global cultural cross-pollination!).

    I would venture that a tune first published in 1785 has had quite a few sets of lyrics written for it in the centuries since, but somehow I doubt that dislike of the tune is related to that fact. Some people just don't like some tunes, and one played as frequently, and in as many varying formats, as Irish Washerwoman, may inspire a few negative reactions.

    The band I'm in plays it every gig, in a medley with Swallowtail Jig and Saddle the Pony, and I have to say -- whether it's the familiarity, or our world-class musicianship (I suspect the former), we always get a lot of applause for it.

    Here 'tis, in case you'd like to listen. I'm doing the (Sobell) mandola harmonies.
    Allen Hopkins
    Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
    Natl Triolian Dobro mando
    Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
    H-O mandolinetto
    Stradolin Vega banjolin
    Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
    Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
    Flatiron 3K OM

  30. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to allenhopkins For This Useful Post:


  31. #22
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Posts
    2,771

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainer73 View Post
    It also might be due to the fact that it's just an awful tune.
    You never did mention what makes it awful, except for polling and an English allusion, neither of which discusses the musicality or lack thereof.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow Manouche
    Arrow Jazzbo
    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Gibson F5L
    Gibson A-4
    Ratliff CountryBoy A

  32. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL,USA
    Posts
    613

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    no argument intended, but...

    for discussion let's remove what music is being played, style, ethnicity, experience level of the player, and just look at the mechanical and visual aspects of the two instruments in the original poster's question...

    "tuned in fifths" has a lot to do with perceived advantage mandolin, but why? Because it allows us to envision the fretboard as symmetrical. Patterns, scales, chords are more readily visualized and located. But hey, fourths are symmetrical too aren't they? Yes, but that pattern is broken at the B string on the guitar. Also the more expansive range of the guitar means there are many more ways to play things on the guitar, more places to locate notes, phrases etc on the board.

    One might the longer fret scale on the guitar would be another advantage mandolin, but lest we forget finding things in all keys on mandolin requires comfortable usage of the fourth finger when manipulating those beautifully symmetrical scale patterns. Perhaps we're thrown right back to subjectivity here.

    I guess I'm mostly saying it's easier for me to see and feel my way around a mandolin fretboard than a guitar fretboard. Finding the ideas one "hears" in the mind's ear on the fretboard and sounding them happens more readily on the mandolin. We read how piano players get an assist from their instrument because they can look down and see where everything is, and the pattern on the keyboard is consistent from bottom to top..

    I marvel at saxophone players, trumpet, trombone, etc. They set the standards for facility yet what are they "seeing"? I suppose they might say "oh, we have patterns and symmetry too"...but where do they put the capo?

    One last notion. If one finds his instrument easier to play melodies on than on another instrument, perhaps best to allow that player to believe that. Every bit of confidence, relaxation, and accuracy counts.

  33. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Don Stiernberg For This Useful Post:


  34. #24

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Stiernberg View Post
    ...saxophone players, trumpet, trombone, etc. They set the standards for facility yet what are they "seeing"? ...but where do they put the capo?
    The same place the singer does

    The patterns are conceived mentally - but there are no symmetries per se. It's really just a matter of pushing the correct buttons (in the case of ww - trombones not so much) and of course embouchure.

    For me (re mndln and gtr), the tuning is one thing, but the size/ergonomics is perhaps more of an issue: the greater area of the gtr fingerboard is just more physically challenging. For the same reasons, it's a bit easier for me to play on a 17-fret tenor banjo compared with a 22 fret plectrum; easier for me to play tunes on a cello than a DB; faster on alto sax than bari, and less work...

  35. #25
    Playing on the porch
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    A Hilltop in Central Texas
    Posts
    162

    Default Re: Single Note Melody - Is mandolin "easier?"

    I'm one of those who find the mandolin much easier for playing melodies, but as an old violinist, that's no surprise. The joy of the violin is that all the notes are very close to each other, so you can move your fingers to multiple positions very, very quickly.

    I saw reference to the trombone in an earlier post, and I used to play one. In high school, I needed an instrument that would get me onto the football field and a violin wasn't the way to go. I thought of the trombone and violin in much the same way. There were no markers, frets or keys to tap to help you find the right note. It was aall about "the feel" with both the violin and the trombome. If you extended the slide the right amount, you could hit the right note.

    Now, with the mandolin I am delightfully spoiled. As long as my fingers land close to where I used to play them, I can take everything I learned about left hand positioning and apply it directly to the mandolin. And, surprisingly, I found all the work I put into the bow had utility to my way of attacking the strings with a pick.

    Of course, had I ever learned to play the guitar, perhaps I would feel differently. I tried, for decades, to periodically become comfortable with one of those behemoths, but I was never so lucky. Showing up at a college party with a violin lacked some of the "cool factor" that I was hunting. (My friends back then were not the music majors.) I'm just glad that I discovered the mandolin later in life. What a great instrument!
    ---
    2021 Ellis F5 Special #564 mandolin
    1928 Roth violin
    2016 Eastman MD515 mandolin
    1907 Foltz violin

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •