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Thread: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

  1. #151
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranald View Post
    Well the OP did say, "Feel free to name your preferred genre/style. I might include it in the subsequent evaluation..."
    Yes, yes, he did. He also said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Willi Bahrenberg View Post
    I think we are beginning to see a clear tendency through all your (understandable) ifs and buts.

    I'll wrap this one up when I get back to my PC next Monday. Keep it coming until then
    He's running a bit late - hasn't even logged in for over a week - so what I've done is try to put the results so far into some sort of context, with a rudimentary statistical analysis. Whatever the final analysis ends up being by his reckoning, this "clear tendency" has been fairly consistent, with a ratio of over 3:1 nos to yeses. As I've said, saying "yes" to the question means one defines oneself as someone who plays bluegrass mostly, if not exclusively, and saying "no" means one defines oneself as someone who plays mostly other music than bluegrass, even if that includes playing bluegrass some of the time. IMO, natch, and YMMV, but I think that's a judicious interpretation of the question.

    For instance ...

    Last night I played my first real gig in ages, what with this and that real-life situation impinging on my activities. This was with the seasonal Cajun-country-bluegrass band I'd been playing with for some fifteen years (only during the main tourist season, when them snowbird members come down to escape winter) until I had to quit last year, after getting tired of not being called on very often due to financial shortcomings. (And also, I'd gotten tired of wrestling with the new guy, the drummer and sound guy, about ... so many things. Another time for all that.) But I got the call to fill in for the pedal steel player, and even though it was for low money, I was glad to have a chance to play. It felt great, by the way, and I discovered I still have some chops, even though I haven't been playing much. In the course of the gig, we played only one bluegrass number, "Glendale Train," inexplicably in the key of E. It went at breakneck speed, and since I had to do all the lead work, I had to play a lot of notes in a short amount of time. My fingers are grumbling today. It was one of the high points of the night, as I impressed myself (a rare occurrence) with my ability to step up and kick butt when needed. But even though I enjoyed this tremendously, there is just no way I would say I was a bluegrass player. At the moment, for that occasion, yeah, sure - but overall, nope.
    Last edited by journeybear; Jan-07-2022 at 10:52am. Reason: just one more thing ...
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  3. #152
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Probably a valid complimentary/follow-up poll would be:

    Are you a one-genre-only player? If yes what is that genre (i.e., classical, jazz, blues, folk, bluegrass, Irish trad, etc.)?

  4. #153
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Hey, go for it! Nothing stopping you. It doesn't take much around here to get folks all wound up and responding to a question, if it hits them right and it's phrased just so. Just in case you do, I'll jump in first with a big ol' "no." Not much surprise there!
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  5. #154
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    Hey, go for it! Nothing stopping you. It doesn't take much around here to get folks all wound up...
    Except that I don't really care. I would be surprised if there were too many mono-genre folks here outside of classical, old time and certain specific folk traditions (Irish, Italian, other British styles, etc.).

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  7. #155

    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtone2 View Post
    Sorry. Tell me what would be appropriate and i will perform my own punishment.
    Why, what did you do?

  8. #156
    Registered User mingusb1's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Yes - for mandolin and guitar. And also do a lot of oldtime fiddle/dance music.

    On doghouse bass it's honky tonk, alt country, bluegrass, oldtime...

    Z
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  9. #157
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by mingusb1 View Post
    On doghouse bass it's honky tonk, alt country, bluegrass, oldtime...

    Z
    What's Doghouse bass?

    Is it when you forget your anniversary and all your other instruments were left in the bedroom?

    All kidding aside, I'm actually, really unsure what it is?
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  10. #158
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Polls are funny things. The answers you'll get depend a whole lot on context, and on exactly how you phrase the question. A great many mandolinists play at least some bluegrass music. Some mandolinists do play almost exclusively bluegrass music, but the great majority of players don't. Whether these people would call themselves "a bluegrass player" depends a lot on how they perceive the meaning of that phrase. To some, a "bluegrass player" is someone who plays predominantly bluegrass music. To others, it might mean someone who occasionally plays bluegrass, in addition to other stuff. Most of the great mandolinists whom we read about here on the Mandolin Cafe don't play exclusively -- nor even predominantly -- bluegrass music! This includes talented musicians like (in no particular order) Tim O'Brien, Mike Marshall, David Grisman, Sam Bush, Sierra Hull, Sarah Jarosz, Chris Thile, and so on. Add to that the fact that "bluegrass music," as a genre originated and largely defined by Bill Monroe and some of his ex-band members, has morphed into something much less easily defined in the years since his death. And even when Monroe was alive, there were some contemporary groups that declined to call their music "bluegrass," although many of us today would tend to classify them as such. For example, Ralph Stanley famously called his music "old time," and not bluegrass. Heck, even Monroe himself was not always comfortable with the term "bluegrass music" until late in his career, if several of his biographers are to be believed.

    The bottom line is that this poll lacks any definitions, and the OP wrote that a bluegrass player was "by your own definition (sic)," which only makes the problem worse! Absent such essential definitions, even an informal poll like this becomes completely uninterpretable, and therefore quite meaningless.

    Yes, I play a bunch of bluegrass music on my mandolin. I happen like bluegrass music. I also like other types of music, too. I also play a lot of oldtime music on my mandolin. I like to play plenty of Dawg music, too. Americana, yes. And ITM, as well. Oh, and some swing jazz. Add to that a bit of classical, choro, folk, rock, and other stuff, too.

    I'd bet that I am no different than a lot of others on the MC. Do I call myself "a bluegrass player" if I play some bluegrass? Do I call myself a "bluegrass player" only if I play predominantly bluegrass music?

    I'm afraid that this poll winds up with a case of "GIGO," as they say in the software world. That stands for "Garbage In -- Garbage Out."

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  12. #159

    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by sblock View Post
    ... even an informal poll like this becomes completely uninterpretable, and therefore quite meaningless ...
    Except: if we were on a discussion forum, say, and folk(s) were generally curious about - how many (of those who respond to the poll) played BG, in their own estimation. In which case, we'd have some idea from a sample of respondents.

    If someone were to try to derive more than this, with attendant spurious conclusions, then I would have to agree with you. But what the heck, if we apply Sturgeon's axiom - and of course we should - it's all just a bit of fun.

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  14. #160
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by sblock View Post
    The bottom line is that this poll lacks any definitions, and the OP wrote that a bluegrass player was "by your own definition (sic)," which only makes the problem worse! Absent such essential definitions, even an informal poll like this becomes completely uninterpretable, and therefore quite meaningless.
    I don't see how this follows logically from the way the OP set it up. He defined the question quite simply and clearly, even if he left the participants' definition up to each.

    Do I call myself "a bluegrass player" if I play some bluegrass? Do I call myself a "bluegrass player" only if I play predominantly bluegrass music?
    I would think, no and yes. I don't think I'm a bluegrass player even when I'm playing bluegrass. That would be both arrogant and ignorant of me, and disrespect the amount of time, dedication, and skill someone who IS a bluegrass player puts into his/her playing to become one. I can, however, hold my own long enough to get through a song in some reasonable, enjoyable fashion.

    Bottom line, I'm really a rock 'n' roller with the (apparently) bad fortune to have found only one instrument I can play reasonably well. As much as I apply what I've learned how to do to other genres, acoustic as well as electric, I know how my mind works, how the grooves in my mind flow, and my playing in other genres will be some variation, regardless of how much time I've put in learning and playing them.

    I'm afraid that this poll winds up with a case of "GIGO," as they say in the software world. That stands for "Garbage In -- Garbage Out."
    Yup. So then, why participate? And if so, don't bring any GI. We've had plenty But feel free to. And thanks for bringing up your concerns. People have been wondering; you explored these doubts in more depth. Personally, I think the OP has left us alone too long
    Last edited by journeybear; Jan-07-2022 at 5:40pm. Reason: just one more thing ...
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  15. #161
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Big enough to house a dog.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  16. #162
    Registered User Ranald's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Added: I don't know how this post ended up before post #163, which I was responding to.

    When I was a boy of six in Nova Scotia, my dad took my brother went to see "The Bunkhouse boys" from New Brunswick at the village hall. He told me about their "bull fiddle." As a country boy, I could easily understand the term, as a bull is substantially bigger and more powerful than a cow and just about anything else on the farm, so this was a reference to a big, powerful instrument. I've often heard "bull" used as a term for a physically powerful fellow, "a bull of a man," or for a boss in labour-related jobs, the "bull cook" in a lumber camp or "the bull of the woods" for a lumber crew boss. As for "doghouse bass," it's a new one to me. Big enough for a doghouse? by the way, I'm still resentful about not seeing The Bunkhouse boys, though, in truth, I likely would have fallen asleep. . By the way, the Boys were bluegrass influenced but didn't play only bluegrass, to get back to our theme.
    Last edited by Ranald; Jan-07-2022 at 6:12pm.
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

  17. #163
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    What's Doghouse bass?
    It's a colloquial term for an acoustic bass, or bass violin. Other terms include bull fiddle and standup bass (because you have to play it standing up). I'm not sure how these terms were derived; "doghouse" might be some oblique reference to its size. It's meant to be a term of affection, a sort of backhanded compliment.

    According to the wiki, which uses "Double bass" for its entry's title: Other names include bass, upright bass, string bass, acoustic bass, acoustic string bass, contrabass, contrabass viol, bass viol, bass violin, standup bass, bull fiddle, doghouse bass, and bass fiddle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    Big enough to house a dog.
    Kind of my hunch, too, as to its derivation. It'd have to be a pretty small dog, though. And an oddly-shaped one. Maybe a dachsund?
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  19. #164
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Maybe this thread will diminish new threads about the prevalence of bluegrass players or the ‘overwhelming’ bluegrass point of view on the site.

    Or not.
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  21. #165
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    With the short memory retention around here? I dunno. Thread topics keep coming back as new threads. Maybe we should take a poll on that.

    Or not.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  22. #166
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    It's a colloquial term for an acoustic bass, or bass violin. Other terms include bull fiddle and standup bass:
    It's also called "string bass" and "contrabass' among others.


    All those terms mean the same thing!

    http://davidmbrownmusic.com/images/DavidStringBass.gif

  23. #167

    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Bit of everything, including bluegrass but Italian styled tunes are my favourite. When I've been in bluegrass bands I tended to be very enthusiastic about bluegrass for that period.

  24. #168
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    Maybe this thread will diminish new threads about the prevalence of bluegrass players or the ‘overwhelming’ bluegrass point of view on the site.

    Or not.
    as I’ve posted earlier, I’ve been oft amazed at how many posting folk here, in answering technical queries, just assume that the context is Bluegrass. But it’s common as dust around these here parts by my reckoning.
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  25. #169
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    It's a colloquial term for an acoustic bass, or bass violin. Other terms include bull fiddle and standup bass (because you have to play it standing up). I'm not sure how these terms were derived; "doghouse" might be some oblique reference to its size. It's meant to be a term of affection, a sort of backhanded compliment.

    According to the wiki, which uses "Double bass" for its entry's title: Other names include bass, upright bass, string bass, acoustic bass, acoustic string bass, contrabass, contrabass viol, bass viol, bass violin, standup bass, bull fiddle, doghouse bass, and bass fiddle.



    Kind of my hunch, too, as to its derivation. It'd have to be a pretty small dog, though. And an oddly-shaped one. Maybe a dachsund?
    Thank you! Makes sense. I wonder sometimes if these are regional terms... or possibly generational?
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  26. #170
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    yes

  27. #171
    Registered User jefflester's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    No.

    Rock, folk, smattering of jazz and Celtic.

  28. #172

    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    No.

  29. #173
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    Thank you! Makes sense. I wonder sometimes if these are regional terms... or possibly generational?
    Sure, the region is the whole US (and likely beyond). That's what I've heard the upright bass called (doghouse) here in Washington, in San Diego (over 30 years ago), in NM when I started playing bluegrass, in Georgia when I've jammed there....

    Remember, just because one relative newcomer to any given pursuit hasn't heard a term doesn't make it regional, generational, colloquial, etc.

  30. #174

    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    A friend of mine once said "There are not a lot of people playing bluegrass music in our area." I responded "There are quite a few playing thats-not-bluegrass." as I had at the time dealt with some nonsense out of some purer than Monroe traditionalists. He laughed and said "Yes there are."

    I have thought about starting a band called No Part of Nothin' . I do not know if it could be considered a bluegrass band or not. If anyone said that ain't no part of nothin' I could say Yes it is no part of nothin'.

    I love the line John Hartford wrote in Steamboat Whistle Blues where he said "Bluegrass music is a thing of the past, so is rock and roll."

  31. #175
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: To be or not to be (a bluegrass player)

    Quote Originally Posted by mandobart View Post
    sure, the region is the whole us (and likely beyond). That's what i've heard the upright bass called (doghouse) here in washington, in san diego (over 30 years ago), in nm when i started playing bluegrass, in georgia when i've jammed there....

    Remember, just because one relative newcomer to any given pursuit hasn't heard a term doesn't make it regional, generational, colloquial, etc.
    ok

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