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Thread: Vintage?

  1. #51

    Default Re: Vintage?

    Re: Quasi Mojo. I think of the shading of the top on cheap violins and the (sacred) sunburst as varieties of factory antiquing. In the violin case, simulation of decades of rosin accumulations and dirt, the sunburst as a wear pattern. Same effect often seen in brand new ‘period’ furniture, and much appreciated in actual antiques.
    Personally, I think it’s off-putting, especially done crudely as we often see on mandolins.
    Patina, to me, is often identical to phony-looking.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    It’s always puzzled me as to why an old instrument in perfect condition can be worth considerably more than one in play-worn condition whereas somebody will pay far more for a brand new instrument in distressed condition than one in showroom condition.

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  5. #53

    Default Re: Vintage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray(T) View Post
    It’s always puzzled me as to why an old instrument in perfect condition can be worth considerably more than one in play-worn condition whereas somebody will pay far more for a brand new instrument in distressed condition than one in showroom condition.
    That’s exactly the point. We’re trying to purchase a history as well as an instrument. A history of (presumably) wonderful music, talented hands, travel. If we buy this real or imitation persona we feel that we somehow had participated. We might even imagine that others would attribute these experiences to us; which is definition phony.
    We may even go so far as to buy a new house in an antique style, as if our own ancestors might have lived there. One instantly, and very temporarily stock market wealthy guy in my Connecticut town had a huge French chateau built, complete with faux small-arms pockmarks simulating WWII. Never saw inside, but can imagine what the furnishings looked like!

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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray(T) View Post
    It’s always puzzled me as to why an old instrument in perfect condition can be worth considerably more than one in play-worn condition whereas somebody will pay far more for a brand new instrument in distressed condition than one in showroom condition.
    Decades ago I had my choice of two Gibson mandolins, both 1918. One was near mint, the other had obviously been played, a lot, and it showed. I bought the one that had been played and looked very worn, It sounded way better and to me that was the most important.
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  8. #55
    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    The oft mentioned description of "Honest play wear".
    Kind of an overused / stereotyped term, I guess. What's better? Time worn, perhaps. My mando has elements of "beat to cr@p" but I don't care, in fact, I kind of like it. Plus, I'd never be able to afford one like it in more pristine condition. Not to mention, a 100 year old instrument in pristine condition was either babied or not played much, or both. How come? They're meant to be played.

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Decades ago I had my choice of two Gibson mandolins, both 1918. One was near mint, the other had obviously been played, a lot, and it showed. I bought the one that had been played and looked very worn, It sounded way better and to me that was the most important.
    What pops1 said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    That’s exactly the point. We’re trying to purchase a history as well as an instrument. A history of (presumably) wonderful music, talented hands, travel. If we buy this real or imitation persona we feel that we somehow had participated. We might even imagine that others would attribute these experiences to us; which is definition phony.
    What Richard500 said made me squirm a little, but then, I'm pretty sure no one hearing me play would attribute much if any of that history to me I'm going to go with respect and appreciation of that history.
    Last edited by Sue Rieter; Jan-06-2022 at 3:25pm.

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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Decades ago I had my choice of two Gibson mandolins, both 1918. One was near mint, the other had obviously been played, a lot, and it showed. I bought the one that had been played and looked very worn, It sounded way better and to me that was the most important.
    Oh and they were the same price too. Just thought I'd add that.
    Duh I hit the wrong bar, thought I was editing. Oh well.....
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  10. #57
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    The 1910 A I had was a combination of "beat to cr@p" and "mojo" with the dowled headstock and other funky repairs. Ended up moving that one along but, like a lot of others, still miss it. Was a good sounding one (although not as good as the Jr. which stayed).

    Could say my Strad-O-Lin has mojo. At least that better than saying it's an cheap old instrument.
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Worth mentioning...

    Bill Monroe bought his 1923 signed Loar in the early 1940s, when it was around 20 years old.

    Earl Scruggs traded for his 1930 Granada in around 1949, when it was around 20 years old.

    Lester Flatt bought his 1950 Martin D-28 in 1956, when it was 6 years old.

    Doc Watson acquired his Gallagher G-50 "Old Hoss" guitar in 1968, new.

    These were all foundational instruments for these musicians. Makes me wonder how important getting a "vintage" or "antique" or even just an "old" instrument really is. Maybe these musicians were looking for something more important than age.
    -- Don

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  13. #59
    Mandolingerer Bazz Jass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Quote Originally Posted by dhergert View Post
    Worth mentioning...

    Bill Monroe bought his 1923 signed Loar in the early 1940s, when it was around 20 years old.

    Earl Scruggs traded for his 1930 Granada in around 1949, when it was around 20 years old.

    Lester Flatt bought his 1950 Martin D-28 in 1956, when it was 6 years old.

    Doc Watson acquired his Gallagher G-50 "Old Hoss" guitar in 1968, new.

    These were all foundational instruments for these musicians. Makes me wonder how important getting a "vintage" or "antique" or even just an "old" instrument really is. Maybe these musicians were looking for something more important than age.
    Aside from Doc's Gallagher (my memory is that was an endorsement deal like Earl and Vega banjos), seems they all recognised that buying brand new was not the best option. Like the guys in the 70s who paid more for (10 year old) preCBS stratocasters. There wasn't a 1940 mandolin that equalled a Loar, nor a 1949 Gibson banjo that matched a Granada.

    My take on vintage instruments has always been down to quality of particular eras where production stopped or significantly changed for whatever reason. So that 10 years, 30 years, 50 years later folks decided (for whatever reason) that those ones made then were better. Enough to pay more than the current equivalent. As opposed to 10/30/50 year old instruments that nobody wanted to pay the current equivalent price for - i.e. "used" instruments.

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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Earl had seen and heard Don Reno playing the Granada and wanted it before Don went into the service; it had previously been owned by Fisher Hendley and Snuffy Jenkins, so Earl knew this instrument pretty well. After Don got back, this Granada had been badly damaged by heat and melted rosin, but Earl still wanted it. It seems that this was a case of someone wanting a particular instrument.
    -- Don

    "Music: A minor auditory irritation occasionally characterized as pleasant."
    "It is a lot more fun to make music than it is to argue about it."


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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Decades ago I had my choice of two Gibson mandolins, both 1918. One was near mint, the other had obviously been played, a lot, and it showed. I bought the one that had been played and looked very worn, It sounded way better and to me that was the most important.
    What's more important than how a working instruments sounds?

    Great choice.

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  18. #62
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    I had a ‘49 Harmony Patrician arch top that had “mojo” IMO … found it in a pawnshop, obviously had been a player in its lifetime, was impressed by its low action and lack of any repair work, made a pleasant sound though the strings were long past their prime. Priced just a little on the high side of reasonable.

    I got to my car, then went back in and bought it. Though a cheap harmony, there were no laminates used, spruce arch top, mahogany back and sides and neck and a rosewood fingerboard. I cleaned it up, minor setup work, made a mahogany pick guard as the original was missing, etc. and it actually hurt when I had to sell it a few years later.

    It was a cheap Harmony guitar, but to me there was a special magic in it. It was never a gigging guitar, I mostly used my Breedlove for that at the time, but I loved to play it at home from time to time. You can see and hear it here:

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  19. #63

    Default Re: Vintage?

    Slightly off topic. Been noticing auction results for ordinary old Harmony, Kay, Strad-o-lin, Sears, etc. These are going fairly high, so there may be several different causes, one of which could be nostalgia, that is older folk; another, American-made. Or maybe a new generation thinks the ‘50s and onward are….vintage!

  20. #64
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    I bet you're right on all three counts, Richard.

    But I'm the guy that traded a nice 1923 L-3 guitar for a newish Ovation 335-style electric, with which I then earned a living for a couple of years. A practical choice.

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  22. #65
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    Or maybe a new generation thinks the ‘50s and onward are….vintage!
    I don't mean to be the spokesperson for all Millennials here, but, yes we do. 1950s were 30+ years before I was born. Most things from that decade I would consider vintage, classic, timeless, historic, age-old, and possibly old-world in sales terms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    1950s were 30+ years before I was born. Most things from that decade I would consider vintage, classic, timeless, historic, age-old, and possibly old-world in sales terms.
    I resemble that remark.
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  25. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    I resemble that remark.
    my sincerest apologies
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  26. #68

    Default Re: Vintage?

    On a similar tack…

    My 13 year-old thinks anything from prior to 2008 is unspeakably ancient.

    Whatchagonnado?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    my sincerest apologies
    No apology necessary. I've been where you are, and some of it I can still remember, haha. 70 is the new 40 so they say. I say, I entered geezerdome a couple years ago.
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  28. #70
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Kids these days

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  30. #71
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    My son David was Class of 1999 at college. He became program director of the college radio station, WHRB in Cambridge MA. One of his jobs was to train other students who wanted to join the station. As a primarily classical music station, WHRB had a large collection of vinyl LP's, which they still used for broadcast purposes. Dave told me that after his soph year, 1996-7, many of the first-years he trained had to be shown how to get music from an LP record –– what a turntable and tone arm were, how to find and select a track. They knew nothing before the advent of the compact disk.

    These would have been kids born somewhere around 1978 or 1979. We should, I guess, be grateful that "mandolin technology," insofar as getting music out of the instrument, hasn't changed all that much since the Renaissance. Methods of amplifying and recording that music have changed, of course, but you still have strings and a pick...
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    ... I entered geezerdome a couple years ago.
    Isn't that the indoor stadium in the midwest where they play checkers tournaments?

    -- Don

    "Music: A minor auditory irritation occasionally characterized as pleasant."
    "It is a lot more fun to make music than it is to argue about it."


    2002 Gibson F-9
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    [About how I tune my mandolins]
    [Our recent arrival]

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  33. #73
    Mandolingerer Bazz Jass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Sheesh, I'm 50. And kids say to me - "Led Zeppelin, The Doors! They're from your era old man."

    I'm like, "no, they're from my Dad's era. I wasn't born...."

  34. #74
    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    These would have been kids born somewhere around 1978 or 1979. We should, I guess, be grateful that "mandolin technology," insofar as getting music out of the instrument, hasn't changed all that much since the Renaissance. Methods of amplifying and recording that music have changed, of course, but you still have strings and a pick...
    This may be at risk/changing as well. Was listening to Brad Laird's podcast #200 last week and he was describing how his son recorded all the notes from his mandolin and then put together several tunes with no picking required

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  36. #75
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    Default Re: Vintage?

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    My son David was Class of 1999 at college. He became program director of the college radio station, WHRB in Cambridge MA. One of his jobs was to train other students who wanted to join the station. As a primarily classical music station, WHRB had a large collection of vinyl LP's, which they still used for broadcast purposes. Dave told me that after his soph year, 1996-7, many of the first-years he trained had to be shown how to get music from an LP record –– what a turntable and tone arm were, how to find and select a track. They knew nothing before the advent of the compact disk.

    These would have been kids born somewhere around 1978 or 1979.
    My son was born in 1979, but since I bought my stereo overseas in the late 60's I had a turntable. He would have been one that would know how to use it.

    Zach, I have shirts older than you. Sorry couldn't resist.
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