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Thread: internal pickup

  1. #1
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default internal pickup

    I tried one of those clamp-on pickups with sticky disks that attach by the bridge. It sounded okay, but the disks hurt the top's finish.

    The mando is an old Gibson snakehead with a refinished top, some reglueing, a slightly flattened (but not buckled) top, and all new hardware.

    Since it's far from being collectible, I'm wondering how much of a sacrilege it would be to widen the endpin hole to fit an internal pickup.

    Opinions?

    Thanks!
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

  2. #2

    Default Re: internal pickup

    I have a 1925 Gibson A2z that I used with a Fishman M-200 for several years in the 1990s. I just put the Fishman saddle onto the Gibson bridge, and mounted the carpenter jack. The saddle fit right onto the original bridge. I used it with a Fishman preamp, but would go with a redeye with that setup if I used it these days.
    https://www.fishman.com/portfolio/m-...ndolin-pickup/

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  4. #3
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    I've installed JJB internal pickups on a few dozen instruments. There are options besides a 1/4" switchjack. I didn't want to drill out my Martin HD-28 so I used a Tapastring Vintage jack. Easy to buy or make a 3 mm to 1/4" adapter.

    I've tried and disliked carpenter jacks on my fiddles and mandolins. They're noisy, ugly, and sometimes interfere with the case properly closing.

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  6. #4
    Likes quaint instruments poul hansen's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    I epoxyed a Neodymmagnet to that kind of pickup and put another magnet inside the instrument and moved it around untill I found the best spot. No drilling or modification to the instrument.
    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

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  8. #5
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Tapastring jack will work with no modification too. I've been using one for years in a couple instruments.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  10. #6
    Registered User Schneidly's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Tapastring jack will work with no modification too. I've been using one for years in a couple instruments.
    Is it possible to install a Tapastring jack and internal pickup in a mandolin with F-holes? I really like how a Tapastring maintains the original end pin hole in the instrument and appearance, but it seems like there isn't enough room to make up the wiring connection inside the instrument or that the wires would be loose and buzz after installation. What am I missing? How do you do the install?

  11. #7
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by Schneidly View Post
    Is it possible to install a Tapastring jack and internal pickup in a mandolin with F-holes? I really like how a Tapastring maintains the original end pin hole in the instrument and appearance, but it seems like there isn't enough room to make up the wiring connection inside the instrument or that the wires would be loose and buzz after installation. What am I missing? How do you do the install?
    I've installed SBT (soundboard piezoelectric transducer) pickups in violins and violas with much smaller f-holes and much less internal space. I was trained as a reactor plant electronics tech in the USN, so what's easy for me may not be easy for you.

    I'm not going to get into taping your bridge position, carefully measuring how much lead length you need between the SBT's and jack, checking the fit of your Tapastring jack and all that, but it helps if you do that first. Put a few layers of low tack painters tape around the f holes to protect the finish there. Then you remove the strings (and tailpiece if necessary) then pull out the endpin. Sometimes not as easy as it sounds. Fish a small strong wire into the instument from the endpin hole and out an F hole. Securely tape the SBT leads to this wire. The leads go inside the instrument and out the endpin hole by pulling the wire you fished in. Keep the SBT heads poking out, one out of each f hole by putting a clothes pin on each head if you can. Otherwise have electrical or masking tape on each head leading out each f hole so can bring those SBT heads into place for mounting. Solder the SBT leads to the Tapastring jack leads, using heat shrink insulation over the connections. Insert the jack and mount the heads using super glue, low tack hobby putty (my personal choice), double sided foam tape (K&K method), etc. I find long hemostats, needle nose pliers and an S-shaped violin soundpost setting tool to be handy for doing this. This is why you taped around your f holes first off. I like to place one SBT head right where each bridge foot contacts the soundboard (or as close as possible working around braces, tone bars, etc.). That's always worked for me.

    Replace the tailpiece (if removed earlier) and string her up. There will be some excess wire in there. I've never had it buzz or make any noise and I've done this on over two dozen instruments so far - a ukulele, 3 mandolins, a mandola, banjolin, resonator mandolin, a violin, 3 violas, 2 octave mandolins, a mandocello, several guitars, banjo, an upright bass.....Obviously didn't use a Tapastring jack in all of them.

    If this sounds beyond your comfort level take it to a reputable tech who has done it before. I'd gladly help if we were a few hours drive apart (looks like we're both in WA).
    Last edited by Mandobart; Jan-01-2022 at 2:40pm.

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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by Schneidly View Post
    Is it possible to install a Tapastring jack and internal pickup in a mandolin with F-holes? I really like how a Tapastring maintains the original end pin hole in the instrument and appearance, but it seems like there isn't enough room to make up the wiring connection inside the instrument or that the wires would be loose and buzz after installation. What am I missing? How do you do the install?
    I did it in my mandolin with ff holes. It's not really a problem. I leave enough extra to solder the connections, then twist the jack so the wire has a few twists in it and doesn't touch the top or bottom. I do the twist with a regular jack too. Chubby Checker would have loved this line. Am I showing my age?
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  15. #9
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by snakehead_a2z View Post
    I have a 1925 Gibson A2z that I used with a Fishman M-200 for several years in the 1990s. I just put the Fishman saddle onto the Gibson bridge, and mounted the carpenter jack. The saddle fit right onto the original bridge. I used it with a Fishman preamp, but would go with a redeye with that setup if I used it these days.
    https://www.fishman.com/portfolio/m-...ndolin-pickup/
    Thanks. Love my Red Eye!
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

  16. #10
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobart View Post
    I've installed JJB internal pickups on a few dozen instruments. There are options besides a 1/4" switchjack. I didn't want to drill out my Martin HD-28 so I used a Tapastring Vintage jack. Easy to buy or make a 3 mm to 1/4" adapter.

    I've tried and disliked carpenter jacks on my fiddles and mandolins. They're noisy, ugly, and sometimes interfere with the case properly closing.
    Yeah, I don't like my carpenter jack, either. My last mando had a Tapastring. Maybe I should just go that route. The I didn't like was keeping track of the weird cable. If I do it again, I'll just use an adapter.
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

  17. #11
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Tapastring jack will work with no modification too. I've been using one for years in a couple instruments.
    True 'nuff! See #10.
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Per #10 I made a couple of cords for the tapastring and keep them in my cord box. I also keep an adapter in the case for emergency. Since it is the cord I use all the time I don't have a problem keeping track of it. If you could find a 90 degree adapter it might work better, not sure I have seen one tho. The straight adapter just sticks out too much for me to feel comfortable.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  20. #13
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Per #10 I made a couple of cords for the tapastring and keep them in my cord box. I also keep an adapter in the case for emergency. Since it is the cord I use all the time I don't have a problem keeping track of it. If you could find a 90 degree adapter it might work better, not sure I have seen one tho. The straight adapter just sticks out too much for me to feel comfortable.
    I like right-angle plugs, too. But there's an advantage to straight: If there's a tug on the cable, like, say, from someone tripping on it, a straight cable is more likely to just pull right out than damage the instrument. So I've switched to straight on my guitars.
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

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  22. #14
    Likes quaint instruments poul hansen's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    I like right-angle plugs, too. But there's an advantage to straight: If there's a tug on the cable, like, say, from someone tripping on it, a straight cable is more likely to just pull right out than damage the instrument. So I've switched to straight on my guitars.
    It's a principle i have maintained as an electronic engineer, that when people are around, the cables should be allowed to pull out if someone tumbles over the cable.

    I have seen cables, plugs, jacks and even computers being pulled on the floor and destroyed by fumble walkers at the office and on stage.
    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

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  24. #15
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by poul hansen View Post
    It's a principle i have maintained as an electronic engineer, that when people are around, the cables should be allowed to pull out if someone tumbles over the cable.

    I have seen cables, plugs, jacks and even computers being pulled on the floor and destroyed by fumble walkers at the office and on stage.
    I used to be in a band that practiced in a converted garage. It was a pigsty, with all kinds of cables and cords all over the floor and gear stacked and shelved and dumped everywhere.

    I hated it a little. Then one day I tripped on one and pulled a guitar amp off a shelf.

    After that, I hated it a lot. (The amp was fine, though. Whew.)
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Since my cord goes into my preamp, on the floor at my feet, I like the plug to go down to that. I use a short cord so there is no extra several feel laying around. I also go around my strap so if it pulls, it pulls on the strap, not the plug. I understand your logic tho, I just work mine a little different.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  27. #17
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Since my cord goes into my preamp, on the floor at my feet, I like the plug to go down to that. I use a short cord so there is no extra several feel laying around. I also go around my strap so if it pulls, it pulls on the strap, not the plug. I understand your logic tho, I just work mine a little different.
    Yeah, I go around the strap when I play electric. Especially a Strat, which doesn't accommodate a right-angle thingy.
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Thank you for the write-up on your process Mandobart! That sounds doable. How far past the end pin hole do you make your solder joint? I'm assuming you have to give yourself enough length to make the solder connection and heat shrink without damaging the finish with the heat.
    I really appreciate you and pops1 putting my install and buzz concerns at ease. I also appreciate your offer of help. I think I can handle the install, bit also appreciate your kind offer as a possible backup. I'm about an hour West of Seattle.

  29. #19
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: internal pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by Schneidly View Post
    How far past the end pin hole do you make your solder joint? I'm assuming you have to give yourself enough length to make the solder connection and heat shrink without damaging the finish with the heat.
    I really appreciate you and pops1 putting my install and buzz concerns at ease. I also appreciate your offer of help. I think I can handle the install, bit also appreciate your kind offer as a possible backup. I'm about an hour West of Seattle.
    I tin the leads coming from the Tapastring jack (it's not like a switchjack where you solder directly to connections on the jack. You want to use the leads they've already attached). Also tin the leads on your pickup (the signal and shield). Slide two layers of heat shrink on - one on each lead and an outer bigger sleeve to cover the whole thing (both leads). Trim your leads so the two solder joints aren't right next to each other - you want them staggered.

    Bend a little hook in each lead, crimp the hooks together and solder. You're talking no more than 2 seconds of soldering for each connection. Heat build-up will be minimal. Your finish will be fine if you're an inch away. Bigger problem is shrinking your heat shrink before you slide it over the soldered joints.

    I'm in the Tri-Cities. 7 F right now. Burning lots of cherry wood and trying to keep my music room humidity above 40 percent.

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