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Thread: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

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    Default Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    I’ve got hand/arm issues that are greatly exacerbated by fretting so I’m looking to lighten the string tension significantly and am thinking of giving the Thomastiks a try. I know there has been a ton of discussion on the TI’s, but I didn’t find much in a forum search related to their use on specifically on the Northfield Calhoun.

    Anyone tried the lights and/or mediums on a Calhoun? Being a flat top that comes from Northfield strung with notmal light gauge strings, I’m wondering how the Calhoun sounds and plays with the decreased tension, particularly with regards to the TI Lights. I’d be interested in hearing any thoughts those who have tried TI’s on their Calhouns would care to share.

    Thanks!

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    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    I don't think it's possible to lighten the tension 'significantly', meaning by 20% in string tension. You can look at the tension between gauges of any string package and I don't think the tension diminishes greatly across gauges, although it obviously does, except maybe from heavy to extra light.

    Hopefully you have a healable condition that might benefit from better ergonomic playing position.

    Good luck.
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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Thanks for the reply. My condition is chronic and there is no fix other than potentially risky surgery that comes with no guarantees of improvement. Unfortunately I’m stuck with the problem, just gotta deal. I appreciate the sentiment though.

    I just double checked the company specs from D’Addario and TI:

    D’Addario EJ73 PB Light Gauge Mando = 155.78 lbs total tension per set.

    Thomastik 154w Light Gauge Mando = 116.80 lbs total tension per set.


    39 lbs sounds like a significant reduction, but I have no idea how that plays out in terms of feel, or the effects on my hand. Guess that’s one reason I’m asking. Also wondering how reducing tension that much on the top is going to affect tone and volume. Pretty sure the bridge would need adjusting for intonation and action.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    Pretty sure the bridge would need adjusting for intonation and action.
    One issue with TI's is the fact that the A is wound. I have saddles that I swap out when I go back and forth between TI's and "normal" strings.
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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    Anyone tried the lights and/or mediums on a Calhoun? Being a flat top that comes from Northfield strung with notmal light gauge strings, I’m wondering how the Calhoun sounds and plays with the decreased tension, particularly with regards to the TI Lights. I’d be interested in hearing any thoughts those who have tried TI’s on their Calhouns would care to share.
    While I have not tried TI’s on a Calhoun, I did use the Mittels (mediums) on a Gypsy Vagabond flattop to good effect and would recommend them without reservation. I have used the Starks (heavies) on archtops as well as my National RM-1, but have not yet ventured any lighter.
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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bevan View Post
    One issue with TI's is the fact that the A is wound. I have saddles that I swap out when I go back and forth between TI's and "normal" strings.
    Clever, and convenient, I like it.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by pheffernan View Post
    While I have not tried TI’s on a Calhoun, I did use the Mittels (mediums) on a Gypsy Vagabond flattop to good effect and would recommend them without reservation. I have used the Starks (heavies) on archtops as well as my National RM-1, but have not yet ventured any lighter.
    Cool, thanks for that. Looking deeper into the string tensions I see the Starks are essentially the same tension as most PB Light sets, so it’s hard to imagine many folks wanting or needing to go all the way down to TI Lights. Must be a fair number of really lightly built mandos, or gimpy people like myself out there, otherwise I don’t suppose Thomastik would be producing the Lights. Interesting.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    ……….

    I just double checked the company specs from D’Addario and TI:

    D’Addario EJ73 PB Light Gauge Mando = 155.78 lbs total tension per set.

    Thomastik 154w Light Gauge Mando = 116.80 lbs total tension per set.


    39 lbs sounds like a significant reduction, but I have no idea how that plays out in terms of feel, or the effects on my hand. Guess that’s one reason I’m asking. Also wondering how reducing tension that much on the top is going to affect tone and volume. Pretty sure the bridge would need adjusting for intonation and action.
    That’s a lot more than I realized. Hope it works for you.
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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Am thinking it should work. As you have surmised, it would probably drive the top less resulting in less volume. You may also have to slightly loosen the truss rod to get proper neck relief.

    Don't think you would have to worry about the bridge saddle. My Coombe has sounded fine with both TI medium and heavy on it. No intonation issues at all.

    Another possibility to think about is a shorter scale instrument, like an old Martin flat top with a 13 inch scale. Or, a new Big Muddy with violin scale. The shorter scale and light (or even extra light) strings might make it even easier to play.
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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Platt View Post
    Am thinking it should work. As you have surmised, it would probably drive the top less resulting in less volume. You may also have to slightly loosen the truss rod to get proper neck relief.

    Don't think you would have to worry about the bridge saddle. My Coombe has sounded fine with both TI medium and heavy on it. No intonation issues at all.

    Another possibility to think about is a shorter scale instrument, like an old Martin flat top with a 13 inch scale. Or, a new Big Muddy with violin scale. The shorter scale and light (or even extra light) strings might make it even easier to play.
    Yeah, figured the truss rod would need adjusting, particularly if I go with the lights. Nice to hear the intonation may not suffer.

    Good idea regarding a violin scale Mando, wasn’t even aware such a beast existed. The sound of the Big Muddy/Mid-Mo mandos has never really grabbed my fancy, but if TI Lights don’t minimize my problems enough, then a Big Muddy or other VS scale mando may be the final option worth trying, so thanks for mentioning that.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    This is something I’ve been considering trying for awhile. It’s such a different sounding mandolin that it’s fun to play around with strings outside of pb’s. Looking forward to hearing your results!

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    I currently use TI's on all of my instruments. While I absolutely love them, I cannot say I have noticed even the slightest difference in terms of less strain on hand, arm, and shoulder muscles. They do feel different under the finger tips and definitely have a unique sound (which players love or hate depending on individual likes). I hope this is useful to you.
    Last edited by Tim Logan; Jan-06-2022 at 10:44am.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcdraayer View Post
    This is something I’ve been considering trying for awhile. It’s such a different sounding mandolin that it’s fun to play around with strings outside of pb’s. Looking forward to hearing your results!
    The Calhoun and the Thomastiks are both in route with expected delivery times of early next week, so it’ll be a bit before I have anything to report. The Calhoun is being shipped from the opposite coast, via ground, and without a case or even a gig bag…. So, we’ll see if it even survives the trip.

    In the mean time, it looks and sounds like this Calhoun could be strung up with Thomastiks. Someone asked about the strings in the comments but never got a reply. Sounds good though, particularly for the type of music being played. Definitely a different tone from brass or PB’s.

    https://youtu.be/xjHLSZRZUa0

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Logan View Post
    I currently use TI's on all of my instruments. While I absolutely love them, I cannot say I have noticed even the slightest difference in terms of less strain on hand, arm, and shoulder muscles. They do feel different under the finger tips and definitely have a unique sound (which players love or hate depending on individual likes). I hope this is useful to you.
    Thanks Tim, that’s very interesting and I appreciate you sharing that experience. As it turns out I ordered the Thomastiks just prior to seeing your post, so I guess I’m going to find out the hard (and expensive) way maybe. I ended up going with the TI Lights, so we’ll see if that helps at all.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Congratulations on your new Calhoun and thanks for this thread.

    Will follow your progress with interest in the TI's, good fortune to you.

    Incidentally, TI offer a number of low tension products.
    I use their AC110 phosphor bronzes on a couple of acoustic guitars.
    They are the lowest-tension of this type available (that I can find) and I need them
    and enjoy them.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by thumbknuckle View Post
    Congratulations on your new Calhoun and thanks for this thread.

    Will follow your progress with interest in the TI's, good fortune to you.

    Incidentally, TI offer a number of low tension products.
    I use their AC110 phosphor bronzes on a couple of acoustic guitars.
    They are the lowest-tension of this type available (that I can find) and I need them
    and enjoy them.
    Thanks, and congratulations on your own new Calhoun, sounds like you’re enjoying it.

    Appreciate the AC110 recommendation. The hand/forearm problems caused me to sell off my Collings MT Mando (HUGE mistake) and set my remaining 2 guitars aside several years ago. I wasn’t aware of Thomastik’s low tension strings for mandolin until just recently, and I didn’t know about the plectrum series for guitar until you mentioned them. Had a look on YouTube and found some videos of a guy playing a small body, all Hog acoustic similar to what I own and strung up with the Plectrums. Sounds good, I’m going to try them.

    Question: Any chance you’ve tried the AC110’s on a 3/4 scale guitar? In addition to my Larrivee 00 I also have a carbon fiber Cargo Guitar, I believe is 3/4 scale and I’d also like to try the plectrums on that, but I’m wondering if the tension on the AC110’s will be too low for that guitar? Any thoughts based on your experience? TIA.

  21. #17

    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Mojo,

    Thank you!

    On a very short-scale guitar you might want to go up to the next heavier (but still light) set of AC11?'s.

    I have a 24" Larrivee (!) parlor with AC110's and it needs to be driven with
    heavier strings but this is what I can bear.

    Respecting the likelihood that your ortho pain & impairments are more severe than mine I'll risk saying this from my experience: with these options available, the payoff
    for the costs of strings & setups will probably be gratifying whatever the sonic compromises.

    Here's another one: TI "Classic S, RopeCore KR116's."
    These are 88 lb.s compared to the AC110's at 94 lb.s but they are an entirely different animal. Intended for classical (but with ball ends) you can put them on a fragile or very responsive steel-string, or anything cause you need to.
    The have a fine, magnetic wire rope core. The trebles are nylon flat wound and the basses are conventionally wound like nylon classical.

    I have RopeCores on a cheap flat-top that is ridiculously responsive for its price
    but I have no classical guitar. Here is Joe Gore:



    I have been rambling so please let me know if any of this needs clarification or addition.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by thumbknuckle View Post
    Mojo,

    Thank you!

    On a very short-scale guitar you might want to go up to the next heavier (but still light) set of AC11?'s.
    Exactly what I was thinking.

    I have a 24" Larrivee (!) parlor with AC110's and it needs to be driven with heavier strings but this is what I can bear.
    Great little guitars, I’ve had 2 or 3 of them over the years and they definitely do sound best with some tension on the top. IIRC, the were designed to handle regular medium gauge strings, so it’s no wonder I suppose. Still, at least you are able to get some playing in with the lighter strings on.

    Respecting the likelihood that your ortho pain & impairments are more severe than mine I'll risk saying this from my experience: with these options available, the payoff for the costs of strings & setups will probably be gratifying whatever the sonic compromises.
    Indeed, though I’m really about at the end of the road in my pursuit of solutions and if AC110’s on the guitar and light gauge Thomastiks on the Mando don’t alleviate most of the problems then I’m done with fretted string instruments I’m afraid. Non-invasive therapies have been completely ineffective and experimental surgery is out of the question.

    I Here's another one: TI "Classic S, RopeCore KR116's."
    These are 88 lb.s compared to the AC110's at 94 lb.s but they are an entirely different animal. Intended for classical (but with ball ends) you can put them on a fragile or very responsive steel-string, or anything cause you need to.
    The have a fine, magnetic wire rope core. The trebles are nylon flat wound and the basses are conventionally wound like nylon classical.

    I have RopeCores on a cheap flat-top that is ridiculously responsive for its price
    but I have no classical guitar.
    Thanks, I will keep them in mind as a possible last ditch effort.


    Here is Joe Gore:
    Yeah, he’s the guy I saw playing another all Hog guitar with the AC’s on it. Interesting tone on the video you posted, as well as the one I saw, though they were different guitars with different strings. I’m sure it will take some getting used to coming from PB Elixers.


    I have been rambling so please let me know if any of this needs clarification or addition.
    No worries, all made sense and I appreciate your replies. Hopefully something I learn from my experiment with Thomastik Lights on the Calhoun will be helpful to you. In the mean time, the wait for this freakin mando is killing me! At least 2 more days to go………..

  23. #19

    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    With apologies to 'the Bard'...

    Anticipation is such sweet sorrow.

    Thanks for your detailed reply.
    I am optimistic that you will enjoy your new Calhoun!
    Last edited by thumbknuckle; Jan-09-2022 at 10:21pm.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    I guess ill disagree with the “no difference” opinion.
    I play tis, and have used all 3 gauges.
    Imho, starks are about the same tension as medium pbs. Or, TIs feel about one gauge ‘down’ compared to regular pb strings.

    The mittels are noticeably’softer’ to the touch, imho, the lights more so.

    That being said, while you still need to fret, you can do so with a bit less pressure and a lighter grip. But, im my experience, old technique needs to be mindfully changed. Perhaps too, string height lowered,if practicable. The lower tension does not drive the top as much, and, they can sound a bit plinky if very low.

    Id give the lights a try and see what you think. You may need to reintonate. Play lightly to avoid breakage, as matching a broken string isnt that easy. If you have a break, you can contact the nyc distributor. They are very helpful.

    I had trigger finger for a couple of years via playing too much, too aggressively. Frankly, while the strings helped, a bit, it isnt like playing an electric guitar. If its muscular, you may need to rest, or worse.
    Best of luck.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevedenver View Post
    I guess ill disagree with the “no difference” opinion.
    I play tis, and have used all 3 gauges.
    Imho, starks are about the same tension as medium pbs. Or, TIs feel about one gauge ‘down’ compared to regular pb strings.

    The mittels are noticeably’softer’ to the touch, imho, the lights more so.

    That being said, while you still need to fret, you can do so with a bit less pressure and a lighter grip. But, im my experience, old technique needs to be mindfully changed. Perhaps too, string height lowered,if practicable. The lower tension does not drive the top as much, and, they can sound a bit plinky if very low.

    Id give the lights a try and see what you think. You may need to reintonate. Play lightly to avoid breakage, as matching a broken string isnt that easy. If you have a break, you can contact the nyc distributor. They are very helpful.

    I had trigger finger for a couple of years via playing too much, too aggressively. Frankly, while the strings helped, a bit, it isnt like playing an electric guitar. If its muscular, you may need to rest, or worse.
    Best of luck.
    Thanks so much Steve, I very much appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experiences with the TI’s. Definitely some useful info in there for me.

    I did go with the lights and they actually arrived late today, so I’ll have them on here shortly. I’ll definitely check the intonation and see about the string height, as well a having a look at the neck relief. Thanks for the tips re:string breakage - I’ll be sure to avoid the Albert King type bends But it’s good to know where to go for single strings if I need them.

    Sounds like your own hand problems are behind you now, which is good to hear. Thanks again.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    I've heard some players find GHS Silk & Steel sets easier to play. Might be worth investigating.
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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Leyda View Post
    I've heard some players find GHS Silk & Steel sets easier to play. Might be worth investigating.
    Thanks Chuck, I’ll keep that in mind if the TI’s don’t work out. Just put them on the Mando last night, so at $50 for the set, I’m kinda committed for the moment.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Yup.they have doubled in price in the past decade.

    And if you break a string in the first few weeks, its tough to swallow.
    Fwiw, when playing hard several hours , daily, i kept mittels on for 8-9 months. They are amazing in this regard. And, economical due to their long life.

    Imho, TIs are ‘Almost dead on arrival’ , compared to phosphor bronze, but after months, very little change in tone, tuning stability (unequalled) , and intonation.

    I was most amazed by how little tonal difference there is between TIs and PBs in a band mix , with or without mics. It doesnt sound that way from the players POV, but if you have someone play and you sit in front, imho, not much real difference.

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    Default Re: Thomastiks on a Northfield Calhoun?

    Interesting observations about how little noticeable difference there is between PBs and TI’s from the listener’s perspective in a band setting. I’ve had no experience with TI’s till now, either as a user or live listener. I was surprised to find that new TI’s on the Calhoun didn’t sound radically different than the old, worn PB’s I took off. Overall I like the sound of the TIs on the Calhoun as it’s already a pretty bright instrument and PB’s were maybe a little too much of a good thing in that regard. Only downside being the G course sounds a little weak now. But I am using the lights and I suspect the heavier gauges would be better in that regard.

    Yeah, the TI prices are insane, however my fingers kill PB and Brass strings crazy fast, so the type of longevity you and others have reported makes the cost potentially much more reasonable (at least for me), particularly in light of the fact that changing strings is not one of my favorite activities. Once or twice a year sounds way better than 6-12x.

    And of course I needed the reduced tension anyway. Now that I have them on I agree with you Steve, the lower tension is definitely noticeable and it’s a matter of retraining oneself not to apply the previously habitual fretting pressure. A bit like learning to left foot brake in a car, for those who have had the experience. I definitely have some work to do in modulating my fretting pressure to the new string tension in hopes of solving my particular hand/forearm problem, but so far I am liking the tone, feel, and reduced tension of the TI lights, though I’d probably recommend at least the Mittels for anyone not needing the absolute lightest tension.

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