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Thread: What is a C2 chord?

  1. #1
    Registered User Nick Royal's Avatar
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    Default What is a C2 chord?

    What does a C2 chord look like on the mandolin?

    And the notes?
    Thanks,
    Nick

  2. #2
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    Try 5250 (c-e-d-e) or 5253 (c-e-d-g).

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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    A C2 chord means you add the 2nd note of the scale, in this case, D. Why this is different from a ninth chord (same note) will take someone more well-versed in theory than me to explain. If it means placing the added note in the middle of the fingering rather than toward the top, OK ... But with all the chord inversions mandolinists commonly play, such a consideration may be moot.

    So find a way to add that D note. The second chord Bruce gave you sounds right, though is a little daunting. I do like that it's only one note different from one of my favorite chords, the 4253 Em7. There's also 7578 and 9-10-10-10. An easy fix is 0030, though I don't know if that really sounds right. What you need to do is see which chord goes well with the other chords in the progression.

    And yes, as Jim said, 9th notes are added after 7th notes. With only four notes to work with, something has to drop out. But a C2, if that's the same as "C add 2," is manageable on the mandolin.
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    working musician Jim Bevan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    A C9 also has a Bb – the Bb is the 7th, and the D, a third above the 7th, is the 9th.
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    A C2 is more commonly called a Cadd9. The C9 as Jim said contains the dominant 7th, the Cadd9 does not. I believe extensions below the 5th are usually denoted as the next octave higher. 2 becomes 9, 4 becomes 11. I am not certain why this is done.

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    Ursus Mandolinus Fretbear's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    It would also explain something else that I always found interesting.
    Both Lester Flatt and Tony Rice's fingering of their G chord (a chord they both got a lot of use out of) often did not fret the Bass A string at the expected B note. When I thought about why this was, I came up with the same conclusion, that the open A note was part of the scale, if not that specific chord.
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlM View Post
    I believe extensions below the 5th are usually denoted as the next octave higher. 2 becomes 9, 4 becomes 11. I am not certain why this is done.
    It's 'cuz the 7th (played or implied) is the clincher. The 7th, 9th, 11th and 13th are a tower of thirds stacked up on top of the triad. Remove the 7th and the tower doesn't exist, and those notes that aren't in the triad simply become "add"s within the first octave.
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bevan View Post
    and those notes that aren't in the triad simply become "add"s within the first octave.
    I suppose that a 6/9 chord is an exception to the above – I've never seen it called a 2/6.
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    My understanding is that C2 is not Cadd9, which is just what it says, and C9, as noted, is built off the dominant. Instead, C2 is almost always a shorthand (?) for Csus2, which does *not* have the 3rd, i.e., it is only C-G-D.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended_chord

    (When I played in a praise team for several years, I found that "sus" chords formed a good portion of the music, so I had several "grips" for them on the guitar. I have not found as much use for them in the stuff I'm trying to learn on the mandolin.)
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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    I think the most common usage is C2 = Cadd9

    The C2 guitar chord is a very common chord among bluegrass players in my estimation, moving from G major 3-2-0-0-3-3 to X-3-2-0-3-3

    That’s not to say that some folk somewhere may not write C2 when they mean Csus2 … only saying that I’ve never seen it, or written it that way myself.
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    I agree with Keith over Mark, that a C2 does not equal a Cadd9 – to me, a Cadd9 implies a C triad (C-E-G) with an added D, whereas a C2 has no third, no E.
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    working musician Jim Bevan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    For clarity: to me, C2 = Csus2 – it's just a shorter way of saying the same thing.
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    I would say the musical context where Nick encountered that nomenclature might give some evidence as to whether the third should be suspended, because I’ve seen plenty of examples where Cadd9 is implied - at any rate, -sus2 or -sus4 is the better way to indicate a suspended 3rd. Could be some charts lack the space to spell it out.
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  19. #14
    working musician Jim Bevan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    The problem with chord terminology, especially in lead sheets, is that there seem to be two schools of thought regarding the naming of chords. Say that someone wants the accompanist to play a C chord, and the singer to sing a D against that. Some folks would write a C, and some folks, I assume in the interest of correct harmonic analysis, would write a Cadd9.

    Accompanists need to be able to read between the lines.
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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    The problem with “shorthand” chord terminology is that it can be used ambiguously. We all understand that C7 means Cdom7, but I see now people using C2 to mean Csus2 as well as Cadd2, Cadd9
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  22. #16
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    Good conversation! It can be confusing, in part, by this inconvenient truth:

    - Keyboard players, because of stretching fingers across a single occurence of each note, tend to pay attention to which "inversion" of the chord they're playing. That is, root in the bass, or 3rd in the bass, or 5th ... etc. I suspect that keyboard players have, historically, had priority in naming the chords.

    - Fretted players (at least in roots-ish music), because of stretching fingers across multiple occurrences of the same note, tend to worry less about inversions. Getting all, or the more descriptive, of the notes to sound, not to mention just simple habit & tradition, is more important than worrying about how they're stacked and/or who's on first, or uhmm, who's in the bass. And multiple octaves are considered a good thing, a fuller sound.

    OTOH, as I learned recently:
    Fretted players in jazz are different: They DO recognize inversions, and tend to avoid octaves or repetitions of the same note. That goes a long way to explain those big jazz guitars w/ 7 or 8 strings (courses!), 'cause they're often playing only 3, 4, or 5 note chords, and can happily leave the root to the bass player. (Jazzers, please feel free to correct me!)
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    As Bucky Pizzarelli told a friend of mine, "Just play the three notes you need, kid".
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    Hi Nick!
    lots of good answers here. I hope the following random observations add to the clarity rather than the confusion:

    When we think of 7th chords as symbolized say G7, C7, etc. we assume that they are dominant chords, taking position V ("five") in a progression. the flatted 7th is essential to the chord being a dominant chord. A major 7th chord, is a 7th chord of the other type, where the 7th is not flatted. These are symbolized as Cmaj7 or C with a triangle next to it. They are generally root chords, position I("one")allthough they do turn up as IV chords occasionally.

    Same ideas sort of apply to 9th chords...if you see C9, assume it's a dominant chord with the added color tone 9. as noted above by someone, if it does not have the b7, it would be symbolized as Cmaj9...

    sus I think is shorthand for suspend..to suspend a note from a chord is to remove it from use. Often the third gets suspended, then the indicated note is what replaces it..Csus4 would be a C major chord with the 4th sounding rather than the third..I hope Bruce will weigh in on this one again..

    love and good notes to all
    donnie

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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    Such a long thread emerging from such a short question! Shows the question isn’t as simple as it looked.

    Everyone is agreeing that a D note is involved, and on mandolin, the easiest places to find one would be the 7th fret on the G string, the open D string, or the 5th fret on the A string. So, build your chord around one of those.

    I agree that the key difference between a C2 and a C9 is that a 2 chord does not include the 7 note, but the 9 chord does. To my ear, a 9 chord sounds jazzy, and a 2 chord rings more, which is why it’s usually called Csus2, and why I can’t remember ever seeing a chord called Csus9.

    As for including the 3 note in a Csus2 chord, I agree with Mark Gunter’s example from the guitar world, showing that the 3 note can be present.

    Some possibilities, along with those that journeybear gave:
    5030, 0030, 555x, 5558, 7530, 7533

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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus CA View Post
    I agree that the key difference between a C2 and a C9 is that a 2 chord does not include the 7 note, but the 9 chord does. To my ear, a 9 chord sounds jazzy, and a 2 chord rings more, which is why it’s usually called Csus2, and why I can’t remember ever seeing a chord called Csus9.

    As for including the 3 note in a Csus2 chord, I agree with Mark Gunter’s example from the guitar world, showing that the 3 note can be present.
    Your last comment is why the discussion has gone on to this extent. There are two different interpretations of the C2 nomenclature. Some people interpret it to mean Csus2, in which the 3rd is removed. Others interpret it as Cadd9, which contains the 3rd but does not include the flat7. After all of this I am not certain which is the correct interpretation or even whether it is used in different ways depending on who is writing the chart.

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    Registered User Nick Royal's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    Dear Don and everyone else,
    Thank you for your comments. I got lost in them, but did work out a C2 chord. It is: (fr. the high E: 3300)
    I know this may not be a C2 chord, but it sounded good in the song!!
    Thanks everyone.
    Nick in Santa Cruz, CA

  32. #22
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlM View Post
    There are two different interpretations of the C2 nomenclature. Some people interpret it to mean Csus2, in which the 3rd is removed. Others interpret it as Cadd9, which contains the 3rd but does not include the flat7.
    I think most of us are quite used to the expression C6 meaning a C triad with the sixth added. Same goes for C maj7 (a C chord with B natural added). C2 is a newer expression, a simpler way of writing Cadd9. But the principle is the same, we play a triad with a note added for colour. A "sus" chord is different: a suspension is a dissonance that needs to be resolved. So we play Dsus4 (d-g-a), then normally resolve it to D (d-f#-a). With the "colour note", we get a richer chord; with the suspension, we create tension, then resolve it.

    I think playing a C2 chord with three notes instead of four will usually defeat the writer's intentions.

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  34. #23
    working musician Jim Bevan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    Being a pianist first and foremost, I tend to take these chord symbols "literally", which means a Cadd9 wants the D on top, enjoying the balance of the pair of fifths (C-G & G-D); a Csus2 wants the tension of the D next to the C; a Cadd2 wants the thickness of the C-D-E.

    And, if we're taking a poll I'm in the C2 is short for Csus2 camp.
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    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fretbear View Post
    It would also explain something else that I always found interesting.
    Both Lester Flatt and Tony Rice's fingering of their G chord (a chord they both got a lot of use out of) often did not fret the Bass A string at the expected B note. When I thought about why this was, I came up with the same conclusion, that the open A note was part of the scale, if not that specific chord.
    I would guess most of the time they are muting that A string with the finger holding the bass note. I'm sure Tony would use a 9 chord plenty, but guessing Lester would not. Mostly what they are doing is trying to leave out the B note that would be typically played there as the 3rd of the chord to give it a stronger Root and Fifth sound.
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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a C2 chord?

    I don’t really think a poll is called for, lol, the simple answer has two parts, with a third part thrown in as a bonus.

    1) Take a little time to begin understanding “chord building” - that is, wherever you are in your musical journey, it can only help you to study a bit and think a bit about the music theory behind chords. Learn what you can, over time, about harmony.
    2) If you encounter “C2” in a chart or lead sheet, add the 2 note of the C scale to the C major triad C-E-G (C major chord). If C-D-E-G doesn’t sound right, then try a Csus2 chord, C-D-G

    Always play what sounds right, then you can’t go wrong

    The third, bonus part - lol

    If you’re terribly concerned about whether the nomenclature C2 should be properly “diagnosed” as a Csus2, or as a Cmaj2 (Cadd2, Cadd9), then use a Google search and start reading music lessons or watching videos on “C2 chord” or “what is a C2 chord”

    You may or may not come to a definitive answer, but you’ll probably learn a little more about chord building, and that’s a good thing, almost as good as actually playing something- almost
    Last edited by Mark Gunter; Jan-10-2022 at 11:37am.
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