I vote for leaving out all thirds! Do I hear a second for the motion?
I vote for leaving out all thirds! Do I hear a second for the motion?
Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile
If you find a chord book, even a guitar one, with a C2 in it, just post a picture of the fingering.
If you're writing a chart, then I'd ask (plead) that if you want a Cadd9 or a Csus2 or even a Cadd2, PLEASE write the dang thing out! (I'm sure we could crowd-fund a new box of pencils if the extra letters will create hardship )
2018 Kentucky KM-950, 2017 Ellis A5 Deluxe
Hmm, okay, why shouldn’t you do your own research though? Just google “C2 chord” and look at the guitar charts that pop up. There is no consensus … same with forum posts (disagreements). You have to face the fact that it’s being used both ways. To me, Cmaj2 makes most sense, but it doesn’t really matter. C2 is not used very often. Cmaj2 and Cadd2 are not used nearly as often, either, as Cadd9 which is virtually the same thing when living in a western world dominated by GUITAR and the corresponding guitar chord inversions.
Who really cares? Just play what sounds best IMO
WWW.THEAMATEURMANDOLINIST.COM
----------------------------------
"Life is short. Play hard." - AlanN
----------------------------------
HEY! The Cafe has Social Groups, check 'em out. I'm in these groups:
Newbies Social Group | The Song-A-Week Social
The Woodshed Study Group | Blues Mando
- Advice For Mandolin Beginners
- YouTube Stuff
My theory knowledge is from a classical tonal orientation. So I was tempted to say there is no such thing as a C2 chord. Different nooks and crannies of music evolve their own shorthands. In this case my guess is they are trying to say that it is a C major triad with the second note of the scale, D, added. If they called it a C9, it would also include the 7th note (B). So C-E-G-D.
There is no one way to say these things. I come close to screaming when trying to talk to my jazz friends as they are amazingly cavalier about how they name chords while claiming they aren't. You just have to go with the culture you are working with at the time.
Context in the song would help. Maybe a pic of the song chart or a sound clip of the tune.
It could be a very quick easy thing to create some motion- like hammering onto the E from the open D in a simple 2 finger C chord. Or it could be the guitar chord x32033 that gets used often as a 4 chord in G. Or it could be something else. I kind of doubt that it is a chord that would require a special shape to learn but who knows? it could be a typo..
"I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp
"Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann
"IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me
"I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp
"Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann
"IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me
I am learning from this discussion. It is a good test of my musical education just to follow along. Not sure any of this would have made sense last year.
Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile
I don't think I've ever seen a C2 in a chart. If I did, unless something about the context told me different, I would treat it just like an add2 or add9. A sus chord should be notated as such.
Since this is still going I'll point out the context where I think it fits better than "add2"s and "sus2"s:
I play a lot of Irish Trad, and I recently moved to where there aren't any IT guitarists handy, so I've switched from mandolin to guitar (tuned ADGCAE – long story for another time). I'm busy arranging my parts, and notating them just 'cuz that's what I do.
Irish Trad has lots of tunes that aren't major or minor. Many tunes in A will use an Em pentatonic scale. The IV chord, the D, isn't major or minor either (there's no F# in the tune), and is usually played with D's and A's along with drone-y A and E open strings. Calling this a Dsus2 implies that the D is major (even if no third is being played) – that's an implication that I wish to avoid. I like calling it a "D2" because it describes the chord just as it is – a D-E-A "triad".
It's just me, it's my own personal notation system, but the way I use it, C2 means something different than Csus2.
mando scales
technical exercises for rock blues & fusion mandolinists
mp4 backing tracks & free downloadable pdfs
jimbevan.com
this is not a real chord symbol, harmonically speaking. I would have to ask the arranger exactly what notes they're trying to make us play there.
Perhaps they mean Csus2? Or perhaps it's some strange new creation of the rock guitar world?
The seemingly-well-informed folks who created Sibelius have made it that when I click on a note, hit Command K (to create a chord symbol) and type Csus2, it defaults to C2.
mando scales
technical exercises for rock blues & fusion mandolinists
mp4 backing tracks & free downloadable pdfs
jimbevan.com
Nomenclature is often more a preference than a standard. Jamey Aebersold illustrates that on page 15 of his Jazz Handbook (a free download at jazzbooks.com) where he shows several ways to express some chord forms and indicates what his notation standard will be. When you encounter something like the C2 that started all this the options are 1) ask the composer or arranger, 2) ask the music director or band leader, 3) negotiate with your bandmates what to play, 4) study the context for clues about what will work, 5) take an ill-advised SWAG. When in doubt let your ears be your guide.
A couple years in, now, and still learning!
Ratliff F-style Country Boy
Eastman MDO-305 Octave Mandolin
Kentucky KM-272
I don’t know what I want to be when I grow up.
Bingo. (A number of other posts said similar things and get full credit as well.)
As a keyboard and guitar player, I would always omit the 3rd, unless my ear told me otherwise knowing the tune (and in that case I'd probably object to the notation.) For a tune I didn't know, I'd voice C9 very differently from C2 (which I'd treat as synonymous with Csus2.) Cadd2, I would leave in the 3rd.
Something to keep in mind about both C2 and Csus2 is that they're not really rule followers. Rather, they're cheaters that look like rule followers but were drafted into purpose to express a common need where there wasn't really a good chord notation name based on the usual rules. So, it's a matter of convention, not music theory.
Csus2 isn't really a suspension. True suspensions are mentioned in the wiki article, when a note from a previous chord leaks into the new one and gets resolved to one of the chord tones. Since 4th to 3rd is so common, it gave rise to using "sus4" as a chord name even though it wasn't originally.
Anyway, keyboard & guitar players in pop/rock/jazz/blues will generally omit the 3 and substitute it with a 2, and that 2 would be down near where the 3 would normally be played rather than higher up like a 9. (And yeah, that's totally relative and subjective, but it's still a valid point.)
But for mando players, where you're always in the stratosphere, it really doesn't matter where you play that 2, just make it sound good! However, at least for the first attempt, leave out the 3 to help provide a more crisp less muddy tone, which is what is expected when C2 or Csus2 is in the chart.
There's another variation, too: C mu major (I'm not sure how it's written.) "mu" here is the greek letter, which us normal folks pronounce "myoo" but the academics pronounce "moo." It's the "Steely Dan" chord, where you omit the tonic and add the 2nd right next to the 3rd. Now, on mando that'd be voiced differently because it's tricky to play a whole-tone interval unless you have really long fingers. So, again, do what works, but this time, do NOT omit the 3rd.
The reason I point out the mu-major is to contrast it with the C2 or Csus2. It's definitely different! It's closer to Cadd2, which I bet a lot of charts use when a mu-major is intended.
Last edited by JeffLearman; Mar-23-2022 at 7:04pm.
People also use notation like C5 to indicate a chord with no 3rd. So, C2 is a bit like that. Maybe it should be C25 ;-)
Yeah, the great thing about standards is there are so many of them!
https://xkcd.com/927/
I agree that “In most cases, it’d be pretty obvious which is implied” but I definitely do not agree that the C2 nomenclature generally equals 1-2-5 … though that’s a safe bet since the 3rd could probably be omitted safely in most cases. C2 would not be analogous to the C5 “power chord” though, which consists of only two notes.
WWW.THEAMATEURMANDOLINIST.COM
----------------------------------
"Life is short. Play hard." - AlanN
----------------------------------
HEY! The Cafe has Social Groups, check 'em out. I'm in these groups:
Newbies Social Group | The Song-A-Week Social
The Woodshed Study Group | Blues Mando
- Advice For Mandolin Beginners
- YouTube Stuff
Bookmarks