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Thread: A tale of two [Lyon and Healy] C's

  1. #1
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default A tale of two [Lyon and Healy] C's

    A few years ago I had Lyon & Healy Style C No. 935. I sold it to the director of a mandolin orchestra. I've recently acquired No. 940 and it's interesting to compare the two.

    No. 935 didn't make any sense. It had a tailpiece stamped PAT. APLD. FOR, meaning said tailpiece was made before the April 1919 patent date. The pickguard had the Nov. 1918 patent date and the instrument had a stairstep headstock, the earliest of 3 Style C headstock types. So you'd think that would pretty much nail the date down — and yet it had the 13" scale length, which we're always told was introduced around 1922. (Furthermore, it had the pull-out rest found on some Style A mandolins but not documented on any other Style C that I know of.)

    No. 940 is more straightforward: Same headstock, but both the pickguard and tailpiece base have patent stamps, and it has the earlier 13 7/8" scale, so we know it was built after April 1919, but before the changes to the art deco headstock and shorter scale length. In short, nothing unexpected.

    I remain uncertain of the most likely explanation for No. 935. Perhaps it was pulled from the line at some point and not finished until after the switch to the shorter scale? Why did it have a pull-out rest? All I know for sure is that if you thought everything about L&H mandolin production was predictable and made sense, you were wrong.
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    Registered User Louise NM's Avatar
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    Default Re: A tale of two [Lyon and Healy] C's

    With serial numbers that close you would expect them to be made at about the same time. Any chance 935 was a custom order? Any evidence the shorter scale was available by request during those early years? Same question with the pull-out rest. My B has one, although I think most Bs don't.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: A tale of two [Lyon and Healy] C's

    Given the small but significant number of anomalous L&H mandolins we've seen — superextended fretboards, different top colors, the De Pace signature model — we must allow for the idea that some degree of customization was possible.

    I've also documented a Style A that had asymmetrical points, yet had the 13 7/8" scale.
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    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
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    Default Re: A tale of two [Lyon and Healy] C's

    I've been trying to figure out just what exactly is a "pull-out rest". Can't. Please help.

    Is it something like a "murphy bed"?
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    Default Re: A tale of two [Lyon and Healy] C's

    Maybe a special order, or maybe, like most American factories of the era, they just installed whatever parts that were at the top of the bin. Those of you who have worked in factories will understand.

    Some of the L & H carved mandolins had an extendable rod that was installed in the lower part of the treble side that they called a "knee rest." We see them on many style A's and some style B's. This is the first style C that I have heard of that has one.

    For the record, the L & H long scales measure out at about 13 5/8" to 13 3/4", which is slightly shorter than Gibson's 13 7/8".

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    Registered User Louise NM's Avatar
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    Default Re: A tale of two [Lyon and Healy] C's

    Quote Originally Posted by HonketyHank View Post
    I've been trying to figure out just what exactly is a "pull-out rest". Can't. Please help.

    Is it something like a "murphy bed"?
    Kind of like a murphy bed, in that it hides away when not in use! Photos here.

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    Registered User Louise NM's Avatar
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    Default Re: A tale of two [Lyon and Healy] C's

    One other thought, Martin: any chance #935 broke its neck and got a new one? or that its owner decided shorter necks were the bomb and sent it back for a factory update?

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: A tale of two [Lyon and Healy] C's

    935 needed a neck reset when I got it. I think if the luthier believed the neck was not original, he'd have said something.

    It would seem likely that a replacement neck would have the later art deco headstock or plain headstock, as most 13" Style C's do.
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    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

    Lyon & Healy • Wood • Thormahlen • Andersen • Bacorn • Yanuziello • Fender • National • Gibson • Franke • Fuchs • Aceto • Three Hungry Pit Bulls

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