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Thread: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

  1. #1
    Registered User jurasicus's Avatar
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    Default Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    Hey guys!

    I have a Jade mandolin, had it for a couple of years now and very pleased with it. Quite a while ago I noticed that it had a very strangely curved top (see picture below). I didn’t really think about it too much, but now finally decided to ask, just out of curiosity.

    So as you can see, the top is sort of S-shaped, with a kind of belly towards the tailpiece and a hollow towards the start of the neck. As a result, the bridge is not really perpendicular to the strings.

    Do you have any idea why this might be? I kind of doubt this happened after the mandolin was build, because it would surely affect the bracing underneath the top (I’m not an expert and also not a native speaker so forgive me if I mess up the terminology here), so the curving must have been made while the mandolin was being built, right? If that’s the case, was it a mistake of some sort or was it all intentional? As I understand it, these mandolins were made by Bob McRee, who’s no longer with us, so I’m left to wonder about all this.

    The mandolin itself has quite a mid-rich tone, not as high-inclined as other F-style mandolins, as I understand (Living in Russia, I don’t really have a lot of these around). Here's a link to a video recording, if you're interested. It's also possible that the non-perpendicular angle of the bridge affects the volume somehow, but again, I cannot really compare it to anything here.

    Would love to hear what you guys think!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    Can you describe the bracing design? Typically either "parallel" tone bar bracing or "x-brace" tone bar. And you have determined that they are still attached to the top?

  3. #3
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    Quote Originally Posted by jurasicus View Post
    Hey guys!

    I have a Jade mandolin, had it for a couple of years now and very pleased with it. Quite a while ago I noticed that it had a very strangely curved top (see picture below). I didn’t really think about it too much, but now finally decided to ask, just out of curiosity.

    So as you can see, the top is sort of S-shaped, with a kind of belly towards the tailpiece and a hollow towards the start of the neck. As a result, the bridge is not really perpendicular to the strings.

    Do you have any idea why this might be? I kind of doubt this happened after the mandolin was build, because it would surely affect the bracing underneath the top (I’m not an expert and also not a native speaker so forgive me if I mess up the terminology here), so the curving must have been made while the mandolin was being built, right? If that’s the case, was it a mistake of some sort or was it all intentional? As I understand it, these mandolins were made by Bob McRee, who’s no longer with us, so I’m left to wonder about all this.

    The mandolin itself has quite a mid-rich tone, not as high-inclined as other F-style mandolins, as I understand (Living in Russia, I don’t really have a lot of these around). Here's a link to a video recording, if you're interested. It's also possible that the non-perpendicular angle of the bridge affects the volume somehow, but again, I cannot really compare it to anything here.

    Would love to hear what you guys think!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I would suspect that the top might be collapsing. It may simply stay as it is forever but that's what it looks like.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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  5. #4
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    By the way, Bob didn't make these, he had them built in a workshop in China. He in essence worked with the people in the shop until they started getting it right. Some would have been better than others and I'm sure it might have grown if he had lived longer. Prior to mandolins I believe the shop was making violins. It's been years since all this took place.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  6. #5
    Registered User jurasicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Oliver View Post
    Can you describe the bracing design? Typically either "parallel" tone bar bracing or "x-brace" tone bar. And you have determined that they are still attached to the top?
    Seems to be the parallel one. Also the bracing seems to be fine, as far as I can see through the F-hole or reach with my fingers and feel. On the "belly" side it is attached to the top, and overall it looks pretty straight, and not curved or detached, as it would be if the top was bent after the mandolin was done.

    Edit: Although now that I think about it, it is very possible that the bracing has been re-done later when the top already took this shape.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    The top appears to be severely collapsed. It is highly unlikely it was built that way.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    Well, you’re correct to investigate this since it, as mentioned, is severe, and might be continuing. One distinction you can make is whether it’s the top itself changing shape or the string tension bending it. That is, the neck could be pushing down at the extension, or the top could be pulling on the extension from below.
    If you put a straight ruler or anything along the fretboard, its end may be curving down in the one case, or up in the other. Since it’s still playable, my guess is that the direction is down, or if it’s still flat, which puts the problem in the top and perhaps less serious than a collapsing neck. I have one (cheap) archtop that also does this.
    You might want to keep track of any changes in the string action height with time, and perhaps buy a dental mirror and flashlight to look inside for damaged parts.
    By the way, if you want to write like a native speaker, put in more mistakes. Your English is too good.

  9. #8

    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    I would be surprised if there isn't a real luthier to support orchestral instruments somewhere there...that might enjoy this diversion.
    Have you had to adjust the bridge height in the time you have had it?
    By any chance is there an older photo of the top from when you first got it?

  10. #9
    Confused... or?
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    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    Just a hopeful idea, based on the also-hopeful assumption that any collapsing has stabilized:

    The bottom edge of the bridge's base seems to be at a slight angle to the base's body. Possibly, the last person to re-install the bridge was unaware of this? Try turning the base end-for-end (180 degrees) while leaving the saddle properly (I assume) aligned with the strings. This might get the bridge to sit more upright.

    IF the top is unevenly distorted side-to-side (no evidence shown), the base may not properly contact the soundboard after turning.

    BTW, your tone, your playing, AND that old church's reverb are highly impressive; your English isn't lacking, either!
    Last edited by EdHanrahan; Jan-11-2022 at 12:19pm.
    - Ed

    "Then one day we weren't as young as before
    Our mistakes weren't quite so easy to undo
    But by all those roads, my friend, we've travelled down
    I'm a better man for just the knowin' of you."
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  11. #10
    Registered User jurasicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    Thank you all for your kind words and helpful info! About the top, that's the thing: as far as I can tell, there hasn't been any change in the top's shape since I bought the mandolin a couple of years ago. I have some older pictures, and it doesn't look like the issue was less severe back then. The action has stayed pretty much the same all these years, nothing dramatic. I'll have to find a mirror and look inside it, but I didn't feel anything odd when checking the inside part of the top with my finger. It all seems pretty stable. Can it be that the (possible) previous issues with the bracing were fixed by the previous owner, but the luthier didn't bother to fix the shape of the top?

    Again, my main issue here is volume actually, aside from that the Jade is a perfectly sounding instrument and has been quite reliable these years. But I've started suspecting the volume was not too great since I've been kind of having a hard time hearing myself at the sessions here

  12. #11
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    If it has been stable for years you can pretty much assume it's probably through moving. I doubt it was repaired or built like that. If you want the bridge to stand up straight try the suggestion that was made of turning the bridge bass around (only the base), leave the saddle (the top part) oriented like it is. If that doesn't straighten up the bridge get a new bridge and have a competent luthier fit it to the top and get the angle right. Otherwise leave it as it is and play it and enjoy it. I have a friend with a Gibson F5L that he bought new several years ago that has a partially collapsed top. He could send it back to Gibson and have them fix it but he loves the sound of that instrument.

    The Jade mandolins were a work in progress when Bob was having them built. It may be that they hadn't yet learned how to get more volume out of the builds when yours was created..
    Last edited by MikeEdgerton; Jan-11-2022 at 4:13pm.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  13. #12
    ************** Caleb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    Quote Originally Posted by jurasicus View Post
    Hey guys!

    I have a Jade mandolin, had it for a couple of years now and very pleased with it. Quite a while ago I noticed that it had a very strangely curved top (see picture below). I didn’t really think about it too much, but now finally decided to ask, just out of curiosity.

    So as you can see, the top is sort of S-shaped, with a kind of belly towards the tailpiece and a hollow towards the start of the neck. As a result, the bridge is not really perpendicular to the strings.

    Do you have any idea why this might be? I kind of doubt this happened after the mandolin was build, because it would surely affect the bracing underneath the top (I’m not an expert and also not a native speaker so forgive me if I mess up the terminology here), so the curving must have been made while the mandolin was being built, right? If that’s the case, was it a mistake of some sort or was it all intentional? As I understand it, these mandolins were made by Bob McRee, who’s no longer with us, so I’m left to wonder about all this.

    The mandolin itself has quite a mid-rich tone, not as high-inclined as other F-style mandolins, as I understand (Living in Russia, I don’t really have a lot of these around). Here's a link to a video recording, if you're interested. It's also possible that the non-perpendicular angle of the bridge affects the volume somehow, but again, I cannot really compare it to anything here.

    Would love to hear what you guys think!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1237.jpg 
Views:	406 
Size:	309.2 KB 
ID:	198654
    I followed the Jade story from start to finish here and was sad to see it end. I got to play a couple of them years ago and would’ve been happy to own one. I always think it’s fascinating how instruments are made and end up all over the world and in various places, and how they mostly outlive their maker. They truly take on and live a life all their own.

    Years ago my son got a Paris Swing mandolin with the top caving in (much like your Jade). It moved only so far and never moved again. Yours might be the same. If it performs ok and you like it, I’d just leave it alone.

    By the way, your performance in that video was great. Nice work there!
    ...

  14. #13
    Registered User Tracy Ballinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    That looks very much like one a friend of mine owns/used to own. He lovingly called it “the pregnant goat.” 😂 Solid mandolin and great tone… seemed to be just the way the top was carved. He had a couple Jades; we’ve lost contact and I don’t know if he still does.

    (I own Jade #31.)

  15. #14
    Registered User Hans_k's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jade mandolin with a strangely shaped top

    What’s the serial# of you Jade mandolin.
    Maybe it’s just one of the early ones. But I agree with some of the folks here, you might want to have a look inside to see if there is no damage.
    I own a Jade JF-18 mandolin, number 36. Great volume, great tone! And the top sure looks different.

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