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Thread: Mandolins as a work of art

  1. #26
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gnann View Post
    Yes I swear this to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I have an acquaintance who has a collection of over 200 bed pans. He apparently sees something that pleases his artist senses in the humble bed pan. He runs an estate sale business and must find his treasure that way. Can't imagine where you store and display 200 bed pans. Why a museum of course! Haven't heard if that's in his plans. (Let the humorists here begin the flow of bad jokes. There, I've given you a start.)
    I'd much rather consider my mandolins as art, much like a well made piece of woodworking, that is both functional and pleasing to the eye.

    Ah, yes, the bedpan! Longtime readers of the Mandolin Cafe know that bedpans can be turned into a form of resonator mandolin, known as the commodium. Read about it here: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...-The-Commodium


    These instruments have even been featured in the Fretboard Journal: https://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/odd-jobs-the-fantastical-world-of-keith-cary



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    Not, that is a real work of art. Bob Gnann: I think that you should convince your friend into converting his drab collection of bedpans into a fabulous collection of commodiums (commodia?). Then, he can sell these to us, and we will turn them into collectors' items. That is how the art business goes!
    Last edited by sblock; Jan-14-2022 at 5:38pm.

  2. #27
    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bartl View Post
    On my computer is a folder with my favorite works of art -- I use this as a screen saver on my iMac. One item in the folder is this, taken from the MandoCafe classifieds some time ago:

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    I hope that when I join Raffaele's Mando Orchestra in the Great Beyond, this mandolin will no longer be out of reach for me.
    I’m wondering if there’s an A style like this.


    One thing I would say however, is that I think it’s wonderful that there are people in this world who will take such a beautiful object like this, then build a huge factory and turn out identical, huge quantities of the object so that people can have the opportunity to buy one.
    Just because millions of other people own it, does that make the object any less beautiful?

  3. #28
    Registered User lowtone2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    I think it unlikely that any musical instrument might make its way into that lofty sphere. The market for musical instruments as artworks is quite small compared to the market for paintings, sculptures, et al. Besides, the inherent value in a mandolin is in the playing. What I’ve seen so far (I’m 71) is that high value is assigned to instruments built by a select few builders (Stradivari, Amati, Loar, et al.) that have been played by a select few artists. Even then the money changing hands is small compared to other artworks. I’d love to be wrong about this but I’m comfy in my pessimism.
    Hmmm. So, what do you think about a solid body electric guitar selling for $20000. That is an art object.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    This is one area where it’s probably smart to just take the undefined, street version of a phrase, like ‘work of art’ and use it, rather than get embroiled in formal terms. I’m afraid that if we go for an accurate, or legal usage, we find that:
    A mandolin will not be in the category of fine art, because is has a function other than visual appearance.
    A mandolin may be an example of design, for the same reason. Even if mass-produced.
    A mandolin may be applied art; that is, not fine art.
    A mandolin may be a craft item, provided it is made by a craftsperson (!).
    While this may seem somewhat academic, or silly, there are very substantial walls between art categories that, for example, can attribute nearly unlimited value to the fine arts, and relegate almost everything else to a lower-value universe. The key discrimination is function.
    That makes a mandolin that cannot be played a candidate for ….work of art!
    Interesting and I truly do appreciate the education. Never too old to learn.
    However for the purposes of Rose#1"s thread, Rose#1 was likely thinking in more layman's terms of "works of art".
    I was.
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  5. #30
    Registered User Strabo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    Reflecting some comments above: Why should a musical instrument be considered a work of art solely on its visual appearance ??

    One of the most famous violins, renowned for its great beauty, is the “Messiah”, built by Antonio Stradivari near the end of his career. It has passed from collector to collector, hardly ever been played, and currently (maybe forever) lives in glass case in the Ashmolean Museam in London.

    Personally, I am awed by the musical art of my 1930s Dobro mandolin and my 1900s German fiddle. That art is alive.

  6. #31
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon DS View Post
    I’m wondering if there’s an A style like this.


    One thing I would say however, is that I think it’s wonderful that there are people in this world who will take such a beautiful object like this, then build a huge factory and turn out identical, huge quantities of the object so that people can have the opportunity to buy one.
    Just because millions of other people own it, does that make the object any less beautiful?
    Well, that picture shows a picture of Gibson F4 model, sometimes known as a "three-point," dating from around 1900 (or, possibly, it's a replica of one). It has a scroll and three body points, an oval hole, and a fingerboard that's nearly flush with the top. The famous Gibson F5 model dates from a later era, about 20 years later, around when Lloyd Loar joined the company, throughout 1922-24. F5 models come with f-holes, not oval holes. They have a raised fingerboard, a longer neck, and a bridge location closer to the tail. Finally, they have just two body points, and not three.

    Whereas modern F5-style models are, indeed made in "huge factor(ies)" that "turn out identical, huge quantities of the object," (mostly in China), no one today is making large quantities of these older-style three-point mandolins (F2's-F4's), to my knowledge. ...and NO, there is no A-style like this, either (that would be a contradiction in terms: an A-model has no points).

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  8. #32
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    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtone2 View Post
    Hmmm. So, what do you think about a solid body electric guitar selling for $20000. That is an art object.
    I’m gonna bet that the guitar was owned and played by someone of some R&R importance. In that case it would be the provenance outweighing the aesthetic. There might be other reasons as well.
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  9. #33
    Registered User Cary Fagan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    All I know is that while I'm working at home I'll often put one of my instruments within my range of vision so that I can gaze upon it with admiration every so often. We have art on the walls in our house but the truth is I don't think I look at them as often or with as much appreciation.

    Then of course I can't resist picking it up and playing a tune.
    Cary Fagan

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  11. #34
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    Many beautiful musical instruments of all kinds are kept as investments by people who never or rarely play them, or are labeled and hung in galleries and other public spaces, so you could make a reasonable argument that this time has already arrived.

    I guess "work of art" is kind of a loose term that can even be applied to a salad, which makes it hard to deny almost anything that has been labored over and cared for that status.
    If you're ever up in Boston, visit the Museum of Fine Art's antique instruments room. MFA certainly thinks they're works of art.

    And they periodically have concerts where the instruments get taken out and played. The best of both worlds!

    This page has their mandolins: mandos

    PS — I had a big argument in third grade with one of my teachers, Mr. Crow. He asked us to name some art forms, and I said cooking. He was outraged. Outraged! We went back and forth. I tried to reason with him, but the guy wouldn't back down. He finally told me I was rebelious. He didn't realize that he was flattering me.
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

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  13. #35
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    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    Sblock, that is too funny! Even the humble bed pan can become a recycled mando machine.
    If I replaced the mando neck with an over sized Kazoo I could have a blaster to finally over power any banjo out there!
    Of course I never be welcome at any jam session ever again.

  14. #36
    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    I've recounted this story before but seems worth retelling for this thread. Years ago I had gone to pickup my refretted mandolin from the late John Zeidler of Philadelphia. John was an amazing luthier whose attention to detail was amazing. He handed me a mandolin he had recently finished. I felt like I was holding a precious jewel, a real piece of art. John left us at too soon at age 44.
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  16. #37

    Default Re: Mandolins as a work of art

    Looking closely at the images of John Zeidler’s work: stunning variations on mandolin design. Subtle, sharp, elegant. Indeed, he left us too soon. Eager to see more of his creations. Truly an art and artist.

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