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Thread: Modern F4 options?

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    Registered User verbs4us's Avatar
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    Default Modern F4 options?

    Would appreciate advice from the cognoscenti hereby gathered. For a few years I have been enjoying a lovely F-hole two-point. Each time I play a bit, my wife comments that she likes the mandola better (a 1914 Gibson H-1) not because it’s deeper, but because it has a less sharp, woody resonance with a bit of resonance. The two-point has bell-like tone, but it is sharp and cuts through. It has plenty of headroom and can eat of banjos if it gets hungry. So I have been thinking of trading the two-point for a modern F-4 (I like how the F balances in my lap and in my hands). Poking around, it seems there are only two high-end makers of modern F-4 take-offs: Weber and Collings (the MF-O and MF5-0). I asked Tom Ellis (a gentleman!) if he would build one and he doesn’t think there’s much market because “there are so many good old F-4s around.” I prefer the feel and tone of a modern instrument so wonder: Who else builds an oval-hole Fs on par with Collings? Nothing wrong with Collings; just exploring options. Have had Webers, and they are fine, just not quite right for me. Thanks!

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    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    Max Girouard builds beautiful F-4's but if you aren't wanting to commission an instrument then another option would be a Northfield oval F.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    Not answering your questions (and whatever circle I'm in does not intersect "mandolin cognoscenti"), but I'll toss out that while not as expensive as a Collings, and not an F-4, there's a Northfield F2S just posted in the Classifieds. Based on the NF-F5S (used) I recently got, it caught my attention.
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    Registered User Cary Fagan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    By 'modern' do you also mean a hybrid F4 with the 14th fret neck joint rather than the 12th (as in a Gibson)? I believe that Northfield is 14, Collings compromises at 13th fret. This effects the tone and the feel of the instrument. For more traditional (but not a strict Gibson copy, it has cross bracing which is another question) you might consider Pomeroy, a very fine builder. I believe Pava builds them too (14th fret) and also Ellis, who is much more expensive.
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    Registered User verbs4us's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    Thanks guys--I mean an F-style with an oval hole -- which may or may not be "an F4"! Joining at 12 or 13th fret is fine. My sister plays a MF-0 is it it lovely all the way up the neck. It is across-braced, a sound I think I prefer to tone bars
    .

  6. #6

    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    Since you are interested in an F4 because of the sound, you should take into consideration the features that contribute to the sound. An old F4 (or F2) is attached directly to the top of the body at the 12th fret and has a shorter mahogany neck. A modern F4 has a riser block like an F5, attached at the 15th fret (13th fret for Collings) and a maple neck. Both scales are the same. You might find that a modern F4 and doesn't meets your requirement for sound. If you want to try out a modern oval hole built like the old F4's and not spend a lot of money Eastman makes them.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    RobH makes a good point. It's worth doing a bit of research on what kind of oval sound you like.

    If you like your banjo eatin two point a modern F4 with a cantilevered fretboard might suit you. They are kind of hybrids. The oval hole and X bracing gives it a more resonant, bassy sound but the modern features seem to give it a little more cut. I like the "hybrid ovals" best but it's really down to personal choice and application.

    Definitely worth talking to Max and Lauri. Might be a bit of a wait but they build great mandolins.
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    Registered User verbs4us's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    THanks--yes, by "modern sound" I mean the result, in part, of a cantilevered fret board, and attaching to the body above fret 12. Many, but not all, modern versions tend to project a bit more than the older instruments, and often have a narrower, less beefy neck.

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    Registered User Bob Buckingham's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    I have a modern F4 style mandolin with X bracing and 14 frets clear of the body. I love it. A bit more robust than a 12 fretter with with the old style bracing IMHO. The first mandolin like this I ever played was made by Mark Bluett but I was unable to purchase it at that time. I did use it on a recording however and it sounded fine.

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    Quietly Making Noise Dave Greenspoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    The suggestions so far as excellent, if not high end. I wonder if a higher-end Eastman MD-X14 might meet your needs. Most of the 614 models come with an installed K&K if that matters to you.
    Axes: Eastman MD-515 & El Rey; Eastwood S Mandola
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    Registered User Billy Packard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    If you want high end check out the Gibson F4 Hybrid I'm selling on Reverb. One of a kind by David Harvey. It's an amazing mandolin but not for the faint of wallet!

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  13. #12

    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    FWIW I would think you would want a 12 fret oval hole design like the Gibson H-1 but in a mandolin for a similar sound.

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    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    Audie Ratliff makes them, plain or fancy. ratliffmandolins.com
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    To me if I wanted an F4 I'd get an F4. They're usually not hard to find and unlike a Gibson F5 they haven't gone stratospheric in price. And they're just so cool.

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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    +1 for Girouard, I would also add Sawchyn..

    https://www.sawchyn.com/index.php/ma...-o-2-mandolins

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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?


  19. #17
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    Quote Originally Posted by verbs4us View Post
    Thanks guys--I mean an F-style with an oval hole -- which may or may not be "an F4"! Joining at 12 or 13th fret is fine. My sister plays a MF-0 is it it lovely all the way up the neck. It is across-braced, a sound I think I prefer to tone bars
    .
    I may be wrong but I believe that most modern oval holed makers use an X-brace rather than tone bars or the single old style brace.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    Skip Kelley is making some awesome mandolins and has done some “hybrid” and trad F4 style mandos. Believe there’s a video of him comparing a 12 fret join vs a 23 fret join on YouTube…

  21. #19

    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    Mike Black?
    John Hamlett?

  22. #20

    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    Skip makes a cool one, most builders could make you this request... here is a video of Skips. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiqOOAD0Khw

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  24. #21
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern F4 options?

    Skip is a great guy to talk to and makes a killer mandolin.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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