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Thread: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

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    Default Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Given the wood used in the build of this instrument what would you expect the tone to be compared to maple sides back and same top? The instrument is too far from me to check it out. Curious what one might hear with these woods.
    Thoughts?

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Is this a mandolin, or something else?
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    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    Is this a mandolin, or something else?
    I'm guessing it's this one.

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/181056#181056

    "Walnut is an excellent tonewood falling sonically between the warm dark sounds of East Indian Rosewood and the bright bell-like ring of Maple. ... It gives the woody sound of Mahogany, but also adds some of the bottom end of Rosewood. Less color to both bass and treble than mahogany."

    Copied from: http://tonewooddatasource.weebly.com

    Sorry, I don't have any first hand experience with Walnut instruments.
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    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Walnut will sound a bit darker than maple. Not as dark as mahogany, IMO. Have owned a Big Muddy mandolin with walnut back and sides and a couple of guitars with that combo in the past. Moved on them more because of who I am than anything with the instruments. (Okay, for one guitar the original owner really wanted it back so we did another trade).
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    Registered User Cary Fagan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    I used walnut for a flat-top build. I really like the sound. Pomeroy mandolins is using it for some carved oval hole mandolins and you can hear sound samples and read descriptions on the website. Probably not as loud or punchy as maple. Mind you, my flat top is plenty loud enough.
    Cary Fagan

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    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Cary Fagan View Post
    Probably not as loud or punchy as maple. Mind you, my flat top is plenty loud enough.
    I was worried about lack of volume when selecting tone woods for my Red Valley (Mahogany, spruce) but really wanted the darker, mellow tones of Mahogany. Not a worry, it still has lungs!

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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    The only person who can answer the question with authority is the builder him/herself, and if he/she is honest he/she will probably say that there is not much difference. The builder will develop a characteristic sound with experience, and the wood used will not make a large difference in that characteristic sound.

    I'd be surprised if any of these people saying things like: "...sonically between the warm dark sounds of East Indian Rosewood and the bright bell-like ring of Maple. ... It gives the woody sound of Mahogany, but also adds some of the bottom end of Rosewood. Less color to both bass and treble than mahogany." could actually reliably tell the difference in a double blind listening test.

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    Barn Cat Mandolins Bob Clark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Hello Colemole,

    I build flat-top mandolins in the 'flatback-style'. I have used several woods for backs and ribs, mostly cherry, black walnut and maple. My observations are based on my mandolin 'Moggy' model and piccolo mandolin 'Kitten' model. Others' observations may differ from my own, and that's OK. I am simply reporting what I have observed on a relatively small number of very similar builds. Also, the species of walnut you are looking at might differ from the one I have used. I have used local (Mid-Atlantic region) black walnut. See pictures below.

    I personally prefer the tone of these instruments in this order; maple, black walnut, cherry. All have beautiful tone, but there are distinct differences. I will also point out that this is in the reverse order of the woods I like to work with; I love working with cherry. And looks-wise, I like the black walnut best. Again, my opinion, YMMV.

    I find cherry to project least of the three. It is wonderful for quiet play solo or in small groups, but not so good in larger ensembles. The voice is very sweet, pleasant, but it just doesn't carry that far. If amplified, it works well in louder settings, but that brings in additional issues.

    I find maple to project the most and to be the most resonant. By that I mean, I can hear more of the inside of the instrument, sound within the body of the instrument. It is more complex, in a way. This is good for ensemble play, but it's actually tougher for quiet, at-home play. The thing just wants to be loud.

    Black walnut is closer to maple, but in between the two. Very versatile, works well for gigging in groups or playing alone. I have kept cherry instruments and maple instruments for myself, but haven't managed to hold onto one of the walnut ones. I don't really know why. They seem to have a lot of appeal to people who like my instruments, but as I said, the n is rather small.

    So, would you like walnut? Hard to say. Could you turn it over to a new owner if you didn't like it? I'd guess 'yes'. I would not hesitate to give a walnut instrument a try. Still, as I said, this could be a different species of walnut, changing everything, or not. Hard to say.

    See pictures below, just for the fun of it. The darker one is black walnut from a limb crotch, the lighter one is my most recent maple build.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I wish you all the best in your decision. Remember though, if you get one you are not happy with, nobody dies. You just pass it along to someone who likes it better. We tend to overthink these things.

    Best wishes, Bob
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Thanks all for your opinions. I have proceeded to purchase the instrument.

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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Nice! You'll have to report back how you like the Walnut.

    Congratulations and happy picking

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    There are two walnut instruments I've heard that really struck me: an F-style mandola by James Curtis and a tenor guitar by Tim May. As John points out above, though, it's unlikely that wood choice is really the deciding factor in what appealed to me about those instruments. Still, I'm always interested in listening to a walnut instrument if I come across one.
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    Barn Cat Mandolins Bob Clark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Now that I think of it, I had a Gypsy's Music (the late Walt Kuhlman) nylon-strung flat-top that had Walnut ribs and back. Really pretty wood and what a nice little instrument that one was. Probably shouldn't have sold it. It was the direct inspiration for the mandolins I now build, lots of design similarities. We lost a good Cafe member when Walt passed!

    I think John is largely right, a few postings back. Although we (you know, those of us who obsess over mandolins) can likely hear slight differences with different woods, it could be dependent on the builder wanting those differences to come out in the build. So, how much is it the wood and how much is the builder trying for a specific sound?

    Also, the average listener hears no difference at all. To him/her, it's just a mandolin (if they even know that). Maybe that's just as well anyway.
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    Question Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    I have a Mandola out of those woods ,
    I don't also own one of maple & spruce to compare it with.

    So, it is what it is, mate.


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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    I’ve only owned spruce/maple mandolins so can’t really comment on other tone woods in that regard, but I’ve owned a Taylor 714 (Cedar/EIR), a Guild D-40 (spruce/hog), a Martin all hog 00, and a Yairi spruce/BRW (it is my father in law’s and was bought in the 1970s), and there are definite differences in how they sound. They’re all different enough that I’d like to think I could pick them out in a blind test, but maybe not. And, they’re all built by different makers. I once sampled some Taylor spruce/EIR and all mahogany models alongside the 714, and, to John’s point, they all sounded like Taylors. Sure there were differences, but not any your average listener could pick out. I moved the Taylor along and the Yairi is back at my FIL’s, but still play the Guild and Martin a lot…

    OP, I hope you like your new mandolin! Give us a report back!

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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    I have a spruce and walnut mandola, a double top and walnut bouzouki, and a spruce and walnut nordic mandola.

    I can say that walnut is my favorite looking wood for back and sides. I can also say I like the sound of all three instruments. I like that walnut is more sustainable. I might like the instruments just as well with another tone wood. Who knows but if a luthier likes walnut (particularly on the larger mandolin family instruments), I wouldn't shy away from it.
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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    I'm guessing it's this one.

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/181056#181056

    And it's gone. I hope the OP reports back on how he likes it.
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Hello all
    I recieved the new to me Red Valley EM Mandolin yesterday. First impression she sounds pretty sweet.

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    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Nice! I love mine. Just played it tonight after dinner

    If you don't mind my asking, what's the serial number of yours? My EM is #0210 (received in 2018) and I've considered started a Red Valley serial thread.
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    I understand it's a 2012 creation number 052. Signed by James and his nephew who was helping in the shop at the time. I emailed Mr. Wilson to find out the story on the label and the instrument.

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    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walnut Back and Sides Spruce Flat Top Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by colemole View Post
    I understand it's a 2012 creation number 052. Signed by James and his nephew who was helping in the shop at the time. I emailed Mr. Wilson to find out the story on the label and the instrument.
    That's awesome!

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