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Thread: Defining the scroll for an F-Style

  1. #1
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    Default Defining the scroll for an F-Style

    Hi all, It's been a while since I've posted a question but I need a bit more clarity on defining the scroll on an F-Style. I am currently carving my first F-style top. I am using StewMac's plans, Siminoff's book and YouTube videos as reference material. What I am a bit confused about is the scroll area. Looking at the side of an F-Style it appears that the sides increase in width near the top of the scroll although there is no indication of sides going wider at that point. On the StewMac plans it shows the scroll height but the side thickness indicated is 1 3/8" and says the top and back thickness is greater at the scroll. It appears that the curved headblock is wider in that area, but it looks like the binding "sweeps" up in the scroll before the sides connect to the headblock. That would seem to defy the convention of binding hiding the top/side seam.
    Part of my confusion comes from starting with a top of 3/4" of an inch and carving it down quite a bit. So, a side question...does anyone start at a top thickness of, say, 5/8" or so. Once I got the top profile close, the scroll was very proud of the top. According the the StewMac plans, the scroll is maybe 0.4375"(7/16) at it's height. I hope I am not being to obtuse here. I like accuracy and have accurate measuring tools I just want my own efforts as close as I can get them. Thank you for your patience in reading. I appreciate the forum and the info that is shared. Truly a blessing.

  2. #2
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defining the scroll for an F-Style

    "I just want my own efforts as close as I can get them."

    As close to what? Scrolls are quite different from one mandolin to another, even (perhaps especially) among the old Gibson mandolins. If you want to make a scroll that is identical to an old Gibson scroll I'd suggest choosing one and duplicating it because there is just too much variation among scrolls. When you get into different makers there is infinite variation.

    To answer some of you questions:
    "it looks like the binding "sweeps" up in the scroll before the sides connect to the headblock. That would seem to defy the convention of binding hiding the top/side seam."

    Well, yes it would; but that is only a minor consideration in body binding, the main thing is ornamentation and looks.

    "...does anyone start at a top thickness of, say, 5/8" or so."

    Probably so. Personally I go with about 3/8" starting thickness at the scroll and end with that at the scroll button. If the scroll "sticks up in the way" more than that it makes fret work and other operations more difficult.

  3. #3
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defining the scroll for an F-Style

    Quote Originally Posted by tdnate View Post
    Hi all, It's been a while since I've posted a question but I need a bit more clarity on defining the scroll on an F-Style. I am currently carving my first F-style top. I am using StewMac's plans, Siminoff's book and YouTube videos as reference material. What I am a bit confused about is the scroll area. Looking at the side of an F-Style it appears that the sides increase in width near the top of the scroll although there is no indication of sides going wider at that point. On the StewMac plans it shows the scroll height but the side thickness indicated is 1 3/8" and says the top and back thickness is greater at the scroll........
    I had the great pleasure of having Tom Ellis point out how the scroll appears to defy logic, ie, it looks at first glance that the sides widen at the scroll, by pointing out that the back and top are left thick in the scroll region and stained to match the sides and create the appearance of side thickness, emphasized by having the binding for the top edge of the side and then up on the actual top or back in the scroll area.

    Have a close look at an F model and you will see that is how its done.

    I think that's part of the question you are asking.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Defining the scroll for an F-Style

    One thing I would point out is the Stew-Mac plan has the scroll way too thick from front button to rear button.
    For each plate the total rise should be just a bit over 3/16 ". S-M has it at 1/4". That makes for a bulky fat scroll. There are a lot of incorrect things on the Stew-Mac prints.
    I only had Siminoff's 70's prints and I guess the more current ones are more accurate but I would strongly recommend getting the Adrian Minarov prints from Elderly.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Defining the scroll for an F-Style

    I have followed Siminoffs' prints from the start but when it comes to the scroll area, this guide does leave a lot of unanswered questions.. Some mandolins I have seen have a thicker rim at the scroll and to me it just does not match up right with me.. The first few of my builds were very close to the plans but then I changed it a little. One of my builds went to a very aggressive player/friend who when picking, he was striking the the scroll and ridge with his pick.. This left some pretty bad scares on the top.. I thought I was proud at how pronounced (proud) the scroll and button were.. But when I started lowering the height of the button and the scroll, things seemed to line up better.. As I looked at different mandolins, I noticed the less expensive ones seemed to add to the original rim thickness to make it come out right.. My final way did not raise the rim at all and was much more pleasing to my own eyes.. It also made binding a little easier.. Now the top plate scroll is slightly lower then the fret board and I have tried to match the same thickness with the back plate..
    kterry

  6. #6
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Defining the scroll for an F-Style

    I personally like when the scroll doubles the top binding height, that puts it n the 3/8" height at the button. With 1/2" height of the crosspiece you'll just clear the scroll button when planing surface for gluing fingerboars by a 1/16" or so.
    The endgrain of the plates is exposed where the binding rises above the seam, but when aesthetically carved the rise starts at 10 o'clock position (on top) and neck and dark sunburst hide most of it from view.
    Adrian

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  8. #7

    Default Re: Defining the scroll for an F-Style

    Need to correct my numbers. I meant 3/8 " and S-M shows 1/2". Duh.

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    Registered User Steve Sorensen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defining the scroll for an F-Style

    Steve Sorensen
    Sorensen Mandolin & Guitar Co.
    www.sorensenstrings.com

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    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defining the scroll for an F-Style

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sorensen View Post
    Thanks Steve for the link, just beautifully illustrated. I'm amazed at how many builders get the scroll wrong. It seems to be the first thing I notice. It seems that the builder who get it right are probably getting the rest of the build "right" too.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Old Hometown, Cabin Fever String Band

  12. #10
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    Default Re: Defining the scroll for an F-Style

    Thank you all for your feedback. Again, I am amazed at the knowledge and willingness to share.

  13. #11
    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defining the scroll for an F-Style

    This discussion put me in mind of this video, which I recall being very fun to watch
    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...-F-style-fans!

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