Is it worth repairing?

[brunello97]

Rosewood back and spruce top are the holy grail of these era flatbacks.

On a sidetrack from the general interest here in old quality bowlbacks, Martin flatbacks and the carved Gibson models of the era.


I've owned numerous, including this model under a different / no name plate.

They can sound very good to my ear.


I wish someone had produced a longer scale version of them during their production days.


Now what it would take to get yours fixed up is another conversation altogether.

Can you post some more photos of the damaged area?


Mick

[Jeff Mando]

...The head stock label says "Hamilton"....

Looks more like "Washington" to me....Hamilton has been getting too much press lately, anyway....

[Tom Haywood]

Looks more like "Washington" to me....Hamilton has been getting too much press lately, anyway....

Yes, I got the founding fathers mixed up. It is a Washington.

Mick, I'll post some pics of the damaged area - probably tomorrow. I tuned it up very briefly when I got it. It sounded pretty decent. The Brazilian back and sides inspired me to keep it.

[Tom Haywood]

I don't want to hijack this threat, but maybe it is a good place to discuss repairing this type of mandolin. I look forward to seeing the OP's completed pics and hopefully hearing a sound file. This one looks a lot worse in the pics than it does in person.

[bbcee]

I traded a Washington with BRW back & sides plus a Stromberg-Voisinet cant-top for the three-point F4 copy I now have & love. But that Washington was great! Loud and very toneful. I'd get another one in a heartbeat.

[rcc56]

Step 1: Get all of the yellow glue out of there, and clean up the glueing surfaces as much as possible.
Step 2: If the top is still attached to the linings in the damaged area at all, carefully open the joint.
Step 3: Clean off the linings as much as possible, and any glue from the botched repair that has gotten on the inside surface of the rib.

Then, leave it alone for a few days. With a little luck, the side may relax enough to coax it back into shape. If not, more serious measures will be necessary.

[Tom Haywood]

Good advice. I haven't looked into this one closely. The damage presents as the top slightly buckling up at the bass side middle of the sound hole about 10 o'clock, and the bass side rib pushing out about 1/4" at 9:30 o'clock. The transverse brace north of the sound hole feels solidly attached, but it is a good 1/2" from the top edge of the sound hole and about 1.5" north of the buckle. The end of the neck block is about 2" from the buckle. The transverse bar at the bottom of the sound hole feels to be about 1/8" from the edge of the sound hole and solidly attached. The ends of both braces are seated in the lining. Of course, there is no bracing at the sides of the sound hole. There is a very, very slight buckle at the treble side of the sound hole at around 2:30 0'clock, and no distortion on the treble side rib. The top of the fret board points to the bottom of the bridge, which presently sits directly on the cant.

I think it is odd that the top buckled up instead of down, but it is between solid braces so it makes sense. It all indicates to me that the neck block has rotated slightly on the bass side, and that the top braces worked hard to try and prevent the top from warping.

[rcc56]

My guess is that someone just slathered glue into any spot that was open, and made little or no effort to set clamps effectively. The glue might not have made its way into every spot that was loose, and may have created mis-positioned bonds in other places.

If my guess is right, the chances are high that you'll have to open her up and undo all vestiges of the old work. A good project to keep you occupied and out of trouble; not a good project to earn a dollar on.

[NickR]

This mandolin is clearly from the same maker as yours. I think it would be Harmony but it appears - like yours to be a notch up from the usual version- which is why it has been so described in this analysis below. I have a Regal mandolin with similar headstock binding- it is a Washington and needs some serious attention which I am afraid it will not get as I bought it for the G & S case it came in which now houses a much better mandolin that plays.

https://jakewildwood.blogspot.com/20...-mandolin.html

[Tom Haywood]

It does look exactly like the one on Jake's site, with a very slightly different tail piece cover. I did look around inside it just now. Nothing to report there. The only attention this one is likely to get from me is to continue to enjoy looking at it on the wall. It was a gift a few years ago from a good friend who was a well-known long-time bluegrasser from this area. I have a feeling he messed around trying to repair it. He was a very good mandolin player. He also gave me a really oddball half-completed F5. He's passed on now, so these hold some memories.

[Terryk1960]

Here are a few pictures of the mandolin. Sorry it has taken so long too post them. I have different light strings on it now. There are some signs of the top starting to buckle again in the same place. I used mahogany from the neck of an old guitar as brace wood. It was an interesting project and great learning experience. Maybe I will look at it again next winter.

[NickR]

Have you got the very lightest strings on it- 9 to 32?

It certainly looks so much better. It is a shame after all that effort the problem has not been completely fixed. If it is playable then that is a huge step forward even if not a total fix.

[brunello97]

Here are a few pictures of the mandolin. Sorry it has taken so long too post them. I have different light strings on it now. There are some signs of the top starting to buckle again in the same place. I used mahogany from the neck of an old guitar as brace wood. It was an interesting project and great learning experience. Maybe I will look at it again next winter.

Wow...the rosewood certainly cleaned up very pretty.

This is not an uncommon problem...with the top buckling under the stress transferred from the neck to neck block to top, with the obvious weak point around the sound hole.

I'm glad you're taking this on and sharing your experience.

How did you design your braces for this repair?

Do you have any photos of the braces in situ?

Mick

[Terryk1960]

Three more pictures during the repair. I believe I removed the two short braces as I was not happy with how they turned out (1st try) but put the “new” ones in the same place. I did put the lightest string set I could find on it. I finished it with truoil as it was in rough shape and I wanted to get some experience doing that. I apologize for the playing skill level I am at but posted it for the sound clip. Just used my phone and sent it to the gentleman I acquired the mandolin from to show him it is now playable.
Again, thanks to all for your comments and suggestions.

[Terryk1960]

Notice the sound clip video didn’t upload. Maybe too large?

[brunello97]

Thanks, Terry, for the additional photos.

I have utilized those 'side' braces around the soundhole on numerous bowlbacks once I had seen them used on some Embergher mandolins.
Don't know if they are SOP on LE's mandolins or not.

They haven't effected the tone of the mandolins as far as I can determine...and I've added them (along with a stiffener plate north of the soundhole that bothe Embergher and CF Martin used on their bowls) as safety precautions.

That said, I had a similar repair to yours on a nice Favilla bowlback backslide on me like you're seeing. It's due for another repair visit.

The .09-.32 strings are the lightest I've found. I like the Dogal Calace Dolces for these era mandolins. They seem to have a great sound that makes up
a bit for their lightness. And they seem to last forever.

That's some of the pretty rosewood I've seen.

I hope you've at least stabilized the top and the bit of recidivism in the sinkage / bending doesn't get any worse.

Mick

[lenf12]

That rosewood back is just eye-popping . Congrats!!

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Terryk1960]

I have loosened the strings for now. Thanks for the suggestion of strengthening the sound hole wood. I wonder if it being “collapsed” would have broken the fibers in the top creating a hinge causing the failure. I also need a tail piece for this. The original was torn and badly out of shape. I straightened it as well as I could and silver soldered it but it is still bending into the top crushing it. Any suggestions on a tail piece would be appreciated.