Your Apitius came with Golden Age tuners?
Chris from Tucson
2007 Heiden Artist F5 #F102
1919 Gibson A3 #49762 (found on eBay for $15!!)
2022 Austin Clark Octave #159
1922 Gibson H1 Mandola #70063
1972 Martin D-18 (modified by Bryan Kimsey)
2024 Klos Carbon Fiber (on order)
Yes.
This was built in 2016. Since then, he no longer uses Golden Age Tuners.
Rubner mandolin tuners start at $74 a set. Take a look... <https://www.rubnertuners.com> I ordered their least expensive tuners to upgrade a 1988 Flatiron A-style I used to own, and they worked beautifully. For their fancier models, more money buys you more bling, but all of their tuners are built to a high standard.
I also have Golden Age tuners on my Brentrup A4C. However, maybe I am reading this all wrong. The idea of the Golden Age tuners is that their spacing is .931" (~23.65mm) vs. standard modern tuners being .906") ~23mm. On the Rubner spec page they say their tuners are 23mm. So how do the Rubners just drop in to the same holes.
Am I missing something? Did the Golden Age tuners from 2016 come in two sizes or did Apitius get them custom-made when he built your mandolin?
I would also love to get a set of Rubners for this mandolin but have a feeling they would not fit properly.
Jim
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Jim -
I was a little nervous about that myself. I emailed Rubner and also spoke with Kent on the phone. I also spoke with Oliver on the phone and via email.
They DID drop right in. The only modification that had to be done was to counter sink the nuts on the back of each tuner (they provided the tool to do this).
They also have an additional 2 hold screws on each side.
I took this to my tech and waited while he did the installation. Took all of about 20 minutes and nothing major had to be done.
Last edited by LKN2MYIS; Jan-25-2022 at 5:54pm.
I installed a set of Rubner’s on my circa 1950 Stradolin-0-Lin 2-pointer and, not only do they look great, they work way better than the original tuners.
Hmmmm... well I measured the current GA tuners a few times and it seems like they are the wider measurement. On StewMac site I did find the original style termed Restoration (23.65mm) and the one with the more standard spacing (23mm). I have a feeling the Rubners would not work unless they, too would make a slightly wider post spacing. The two variants are very different in design. Mine does not have the pointy ends so must be the Restoration ones.
Jim
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Well, they worked on the Apitius. They did indeed drop right in and they work very well.
If this helps make any more sense of it, the Golden Age were VERY hard to turn. I mean VERY.
The Rubner's turn easily and smoothly.
I don't know why Hans would use a different spacing on some mandolins than others. He was making mandolins before the Golden Age were available and I wouldn't think he would change for a few mandolins. He is a great guy and you could call and ask him.
THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!
The prior owner did change out the original tuners for the Golden Age Restoration tuners. And I measures those and they do seem to be 23.65mm. I did hear from Rubner and they said they can provide that post width. I liked the look of that brass one they have pictured on their site with the ebony buttons but would go for the ebony buttons or possibly another wood. I love the look of the snake wood ones. I also have to find out if I buy a set is that custom (and expensive) or if it is non-returnable if they don’t fit. I will reply to them.
Jim
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I just wrote to the rep but I have a feeling it will be a pile of money to get something nice but custom. They did say they would take 10 weeks to produce them. I just heard back and it sounds like it would be way close to $400 with custom plate and premium line tuners in order to get worm under tuners plus $40 extra custom charge. We are approaching Waverly territory—although I just looked and Waverlies are now $515.79.
It is near impossible to see the subtle differences here but I have a seriously accurate ruler I used to use for my graphic work. Here is a photo. Of course I am measuring the GA tuners.
Jim
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Jim, with such a small difference in the measurement try measuring from the edge of one tuner to the edge of another. It is hard to find exact center.
THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!
Jim
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AFAIK, the GA "restoration" tuners were always meant to replace tuners on old Gibsons with 23.6mm post spacing. These have the old style mounting plates (like teens Gibsons).
The "standard" GA tuners were always the modern standard 23mm spacing and they always have arrow end plates.
I wonder how do the OP GA tuners turn now that they are removed from mandolin. Are they still stiff, hard to turn?
I've used good number of those and never had problem with excessive stiffness.
Best way to measure is edge to edge from first to last post cog and divide by 3. The longer ones will measure something like 71.5 and the standard set 69mm.
Adrian
Thanks a lot to pops and Hogo for your advice.
LKN2MYIS, do your GA tuners have the arrow ends?
I heard from Rubner and they can do the worm over version for a reasonable price with the wider spacing but I really need to measure accurately. I wonder if these were the wrong tuners to have put on this mandolin in the first place. Is it even possible to cram these tuners into the narrower spaced holes?
Jim
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It's possible to fit the a regular tuner in an old Gibson, some easier than others, so I would say you might be able to to it. Look for the posts angling instead of being staight. If they were the wrong tuners they would turn harder.
THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!
Jim -
Here is a photo I just took of them. I tried to lay a tap measure to give some perspective thinking it might help. In answer to another question, when the tuners are NOT installed, they work MUCH more smoothly then when installed. The tension from the strings appears to be a piece of the problem.
Does this help at all? I don't want to confuse things.
John
Jim
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1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
The tension of strings doesn't make tuners stiff. Friction in the post holes/ bushings should be negligible even under full string tension. I bet they were installed incorrectly.
The guy installed the new tuners correctly or the tuners are more heavily built and will start showing similar symptoms only after longer period of time...
Adrian
I hear you.
Before my guy put the Rubner's in, he had another pair of used GA tuners in the shop. He put them in to see the difference. There was no difference - the 'new' (used) GA were equally as difficult to turn after stringing as were mine. They were tight without the strings, but after stringing the difference was significant.
He put the Rubner's in and they were smooth as silk.
If his used set of GA's worked, I would have chalked it off to my having a bad set or the set just gave up its ghost. I don't know, but that didn't happen.
Is it possible that the bushings were not installed properly and that's what caused that in both GA's? He didn't change the bushings for that swap, only put in the new Rubners when he installed the Rubners.
I can't figure out what is going on with them, truth be told. Possibly 2 bad sets of GA's? Could happen, I guess. Is it possible the original drilled out holes were not compatible with the GAs but were fine with the Rubners? I really don't know.
It can be as simple as the screw holes not drilled square... New tuners typically require new holes for screws.
I repaired F-9 mandolin where the tuners were heavily damaged and tight. All the mounting screws were mounted slightly tilted and not even centered (either holes were predrilled skewed or they just forced the screws in without any pre drilling or looking at angle of screws). The screws pushed the tuner baseplate to side enough that the cogs jammed in the worm and even the posts were jammed against sides of the holes in headstock/bushings. As a result the plastic bearings under cogs wore out and the cogs even damaged the metal support tabs beneath. When removed the tuners worked freely but on mandolin they were VERY hard to turn even without strings on.
(here: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...total-overhaul ).
Adrian
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