Which portable amp?

[meow-n-dolin]

Good afternoon:

The situation: Sound-reinforcement for a bunch of old-time fiddlers (a dozen or so musicians guitars, mandos, fiddles) playing in an open-air environment -- a kiosk in a community park. Jam sessions with only the lead vocalist/musician amplified.

Recommendations: Fishman Mini-Charge or Roland AC33?

Thanks much!!

Al

[Dave Greenspoon]

Roland Street Cube EX. Takes batteries, sounds great.
Bose S1. Takes a charge. Sounds great.

[meow-n-dolin]

Roland Street Cube EX. Takes batteries, sounds great.
Bose S1. Takes a charge. Sounds great.

I wasn't aware of the Bose. And I do like the lithium battery.

Thanks!

[Lucas]

Just be aware that the Bose S1 and Fishman Mini Loudbox don't have phantom power if you plan to use a condenser mic for the vocals. Other than that I like both amps for a small outdoor setting, but in my opinion may not be loud enough for a large outdoor gathering. I have no experience with the Roland Street Cube.

[meow-n-dolin]

Just be aware that the Bose S1 and Fishman Mini Loudbox don't have phantom power if you plan to use a condenser mic for the vocals. Other than that I like both amps for a small outdoor setting, but in my opinion may not be loud enough for a large outdoor gathering. I have no experience with the Roland Street Cube.

Yep. So I noticed. I will be using a couple of ancient '58's for this application. The venue is BIG: heck, it's a park
But we aren't intending to fill up more than a small space in the park -- it'll be mostly used to amplify lead vocal and/or lead fiddle or mando -- a rather more intimate and informal "circle jam" type situation.

Thanks!!!!

[James Vwaal]

Roland Cube Street EX with $50 48-V phantom power box zip tied to mic stand if you use a condenser mic for either vocal or instrument.

Has worked for me.

https://www.guitarcenter.com/XVive/P...20(GC)%20(Bing)

But those linear array amps are like .... WOW .... for sound.

[Billy Packard]

Bose S-1 Pro is the way to go! I use two with a ToneMatch and they are great! NO issue with max volume, lots of headroom.

Billy

[maplebaby]

Easy, no disrespect to above recommendations, but if you want an amazing piece of gear your very unlikely to ever regret buying it’s AER.

[pops1]

A great little amp that sounds big is the Mackie Free play live.

mackie.com/en/products/portable-pa-systems/freeplay-live/freeplay_live.html

[Kevin Winn]

+1 on the Mackie Freeplay. I was using a Fishman Loudbox and the Mackie is way better

[allenhopkins]

Fender Amp Can is what I use; rechargeable gel battery, two inputs. If you use low-Z mics you need line transformers.

No longer made, but often available used. I own two, been using them for more than 15 years, had the batteries replaced once each. I've connected a battery-operated 5-channel mixer to one and used it for a trio in a park setting.

I would expect that some of the amps suggested above may provide higher fidelity sound, but I've had amazing good luck with the Amp Cans. Used them more than a thousand times, I'd estimate, for small seniors' audiences. Couple of inexpensive Samson dynamic mics, stand with a side boom, and I'm good to go.

[foldedpath]

Easy, no disrespect to above recommendations, but if you want an amazing piece of gear your very unlikely to ever regret buying it’s AER.

For playing small venues in a former trio (fiddle, me on mandolin, guitar) I used an AER Alpha tucked under the chair, and it was fantastic. Amazing build quality and phantom power. But it's AC powered, and the park kiosk would need an outlet. AER makes a battery-powered acoustic amp but it's very expensive.

If I'm ever in a situation like that again and couldn't use our regular compact PA gear with powered speakers and a mixer, I'd get that AER battery amp (if I could afford it). But the OP may be looking at something less expensive like the other battery amps mentioned here.

[meow-n-dolin]

Easy, no disrespect to above recommendations, but if you want an amazing piece of gear your very unlikely to ever regret buying it’s AER.

Yeah. I am aware of AER. Definitely among the "cream of the crop." I had an acquaintance who played jazz on classical guitar through one (think Charlie Byrd). The sound was .... perfection.

[meow-n-dolin]

+1 on the Mackie Freeplay. I was using a Fishman Loudbox and the Mackie is way better

The Mackie Freeplay looks very nice, as are the reviews. That said, since I don't use smartphone (just a basic cell), the lack of directly-accessible controls is a minus.

[Eric Platt]

The earlier version of the Freeplay didn't need a cell to access the basic options. Have been using it since about 2019. Have added the battery and carrying case. Works well and can fill up a nice sized room.

[rumpystumpy]

So I did a lot of reading, trial and error with mics, pickups and amps over the last couple of years. I’ll try to condense it down.

Amps:
Bose S1. Really persevered with this. Preamp or no preamp I had to crank it right up to get anything meaningful out of it. Taught me the difference between a PA speaker and an instrument amp.

AER - absolutely different level of acoustic sound quality, tone, reverb to any other make. Way more than I’m willing to pay right now. (Especially the one that has a battery)

Fishman loudbox Series - very good (they do a battery version).
Boss also do a direct competitor, similar to the Fishman but I never tried it.

Roland street cube - This is the first one I bought used for £80/$110 and the one I went back to after all this experimenting. Great little amp for any sub-pro player.

If I was buying one from new I’d give the Fishman serious consideration.
Why not save up for the AER? because IMO a good player should be able to sound good with average gear.

Mics/pickups:
Myers’s feather - not recommend.
DPA 4099 - tried with several amps.
never could get over the feedback issues. Superb for studio though.
K&K pickup installed by a skilled experienced luthier- excellent.

[meow-n-dolin]

I want to thank all the commenters here for sharing their experiences, their advice, and recommendations!

You have, collectively, made my decision more complex, as well as more time consuming

That being said, I have a much better idea of what is available, and what will best suit my purposes!

Thanks!

Al

[foldedpath]

Mics/pickups:
Myers’s feather - not recommend.
DPA 4099 - tried with several amps.
never could get over the feedback issues. Superb for studio though.
K&K pickup installed by a skilled experienced luthier- excellent.

This wasn't part of the OP's question but I have to comment about that experience with the DPA 4099 clip-on mini condenser mic. I have several of those, and I've had great success on mandolin, acoustic guitar and fiddle in several small group formats where I was running the PA system.

It's an industry standard for acoustic instruments, you'll see them everywhere. But it does require some experience in feedback control and it doesn't work for every kind of band. If I was playing in a band with electric instruments and drums I'd want a pickup on my mandolin. In a more acoustic-oriented group a clip-on mic like the 4099 is a good solution when whoever is running the stage knows how to control feedback.

[rumpystumpy]

This wasn't part of the OP's question but I have to comment about that experience with the DPA 4099 clip-on mini condenser mic. I have several of those, and I've had great success on mandolin, acoustic guitar and fiddle in several small group formats where I was running the PA system.

It's an industry standard for acoustic instruments, you'll see them everywhere. But it does require some experience in feedback control and it doesn't work for every kind of band. If I was playing in a band with electric instruments and drums I'd want a pickup on my mandolin. In a more acoustic-oriented group a clip-on mic like the 4099 is a good solution when whoever is running the stage knows how to control feedback.

Yes we are digressing but I’d love to learn to use it properly. I have only tried it in my practice room and other similar rooms when I took it amp shopping. I particularly found that mando + Portable amp + small practice room was the perfect storm for instantaneous screaming feedback. Then there was varying degrees of success failure with other combinations.
Any advice?

[Dave Greenspoon]

Not battery powered, but a used Bugera AC 60 is a potential little two channel amp with a full 48v of phantom power available for condenser mics.

[foldedpath]

Yes we are digressing but I’d love to learn to use it properly. I have only tried it in my practice room and other similar rooms when I took it amp shopping. I particularly found that mando + Portable amp + small practice room was the perfect storm for instantaneous screaming feedback. Then there was varying degrees of success failure with other combinations.
Any advice?

The first two things to focus on for feedback control with any clip-on mini condenser mic are mic placement for maximum gain, and speaker placement relative to the mic.

I have the 4099 mic head aimed at the bottom end of the treble side F-hole on my mandolin, as close as I can get it without actually going inside the hole. The closer you get the mic to the instrument, the more gain you'll have before feedback.

Then it comes down to speaker/amp placement, far enough away to reduce feedback. Make sure it's aiming away from you and more towards the audience, and try to get as much physical separation as you can. Floor monitors in a PA system are especially problematic because they're firing directly at the instrument. Once you get into full PA systems, it's worth exploring electronic anti-feedback gear, but this should be a good starting point.

[Ranger Bob]

You might want to check out Elite Acoustic Electronics (EAE) on Reverb. They are made in Southern California. I got one a few months ago. It is AC and DC. Battery power lasts about 5 hours. Full range of effects. Reasonable prices -- between $500 -- $1200. They seem to be well made, highly portable, and sound very nice.

[CES]

I haven’t got time to catch up on the whole thread presently, but would a good preamp help with the feedback issues with the clip on mics? I use one with my Rigel (which isn’t a clip on, I realize, and it’s more for tone shaping as feedback isn’t as big a deal with the piezo) and also used to have to use it on guitar with a sound hole Baggs pickup for the feedback issue. Thoughts from those of you more experienced appreciated…

[foldedpath]

I haven’t got time to catch up on the whole thread presently, but would a good preamp help with the feedback issues with the clip on mics?

If the preamp has a parametric EQ in the right frequency range, sometimes called a "notch filter," it can help control feedback. You sweep across the frequency range, adding volume until you get the feedback howl. That's your target frequency, so leave the filter there and cut the volume on the EQ to kill the feedback. It's a clumsy process and can negatively affect the tone of your instrument if the parametric frequency band is too wide, but it does help.

I think if you're going in this direction it's better to get one of the feedback "eliminator" devices that automatically find and filter feedback. It's faster and does less damage to an instrument's tone because the filters are so narrow. I used an older Sabine rackmount "eliminator" in our PA rig for a while, but there are more modern versions available including pedal types.

[CES]

Thanks for that info (and that’s the best description I’ve heard of how a notch filter works).

I’ve only played out a couple of times since 3/2020 and was just starting to get my rig dialed in for the various places we were playing, and I haven’t pulled the things out since, lol. As I think about it I should probably make sure I took the batteries out to avoid the acid leak mess…