Chord learning paralysis - getting over the initial hump

[maxr]

OK, playing fiddle tunes is coming on fine, tremolo and folky improvising is work in progress, the tennis elbow has gone, the tuners work and I like the strings. BUT I'm getting stuck on learning chords. 'All' I want to do is for a start, be able to busk along with folk/bluegrass etc sessions without dots, then progress to Americana/Old Time/soft rock session backup without dots, then learn some jazz (OK, bring on the dots). But it's not happening 'cos I'm buzzing around from book to book like one of those blue fly things, and some of those books seem to do that too. I have:

'Mandolin' Greg Horne / Wayne Fulgate, complete.
Mandolin for Dummies.
Mandolin Exercises for Dummies.
A bunch of mando chord books.
Bluegrass Improvisation, can't remember the author.
2-3 general 'Bluegrass' books, featuring mostly them long chop chords in a narrow range of keys, some songs featuring capos (eh?).
Hal Leonard Mandolin Fake Book with 300 songs, hope your music stand's a good 'un.
Various YouTube downloads including Banjo Ben's 2 finger chord comping.

The more comprehensive Method books appear tocover a number of different styles of chording in less detail each than I'd like, but what i really (really) want is one comprehensive chord comping method that I can use for everything, that'll sound acceptable (if not optimal) across the board.

Any ideas, using the above or a magic chord method I don't have yet? I've hit this kind of thing before with other instruments, and getting over the initial hump to where you can 'manage' reasonably is the problem.

Thanks, Max

[CarlM]

This may seem counterintuitive but you need to forget the books or at least set them aside and find some people to play with. Chording will make a lot more sense when you play with other people.

Just remember you are there to support the lead (or vocal)!

That last sentence should be in bold, upper case, fluorescent, flaming letters emblazoned on the sky. A corollary is "If you cannot hear the lead you are playing too loud."

If you cannot find other people, at the very least sing along, accompanying yourself and see what supports the singing. Feel the rhythm and dance to the music. Timing and beat and rhythm above all. Always, always know where the beat is. Find the front beat and find the back beat. Play fours, play on the back beat play on the front beat, damp the notes for a chop. All these things can work. It is a creative process where you dive in and make mistakes. Be prepared to back off if it is not working when playing with others so you do not wreck their music.

Basic rhythm patterns or comping are style dependent. What is appropriate for jazz my not be right for bluegrass, what works in bluegrass may not be any good for country or folk or Irish traditional. You need to listen to the style(s) you are interested in and see what people do to accompany them.

[Mark Gunter]

Double post from alternate universe, sorry

[Mark Gunter]

I hope my post will be of help, not sure it will be because I go by my own experience, YMMV

A method book (and you’ve named several) should teach you how to make some chords, and give you some songs or music to play them in context. Those are the baby steps.

For the next step, you don’t really need a particular method, you need songs (or tunes) that interest you, and a chord bible. Learn the fingerings for the chord voicing to play the songs you’re interested in, and practice the songs.

At the bottom of it, it is that simple, and it’s a lifelong pursuit. In addition, you can use information from your method books, watch how-to videos, hire an instructor, ask players you play with or sign up for online courses, etc. that are specific to the stuff you want to play. But what you need are: 1) Songs or tunes that interest you, and 2) chord charts for reference to learn chords you need but know.

For the next step, you’ll be learning some chord theory and how to move chords around the fretboard and alter the major or minor chords to make the common chord extensions or alterations without having to look up charts.

At any rate, even though you are a seasoned musician of the fiddle, you can’t expect to learn it all from a method book, and you can’t expect to learn it all at once. After about five years of playing chords and comping to songs you like, you’ll sound like you’ve been doing it for five years.

[JeffD]

So two things.

One is that you don't have to hit every note in the chord, or every string on the instrument. So you can learn a lot of double stops and use them as chords. Where it makes sense you can add a third note, but certainly there is no requirement to do four note chords.

So it is pretty straight forward to learn a handful of three note closed form chords. Learn three say, that are related, G, C, and D say. And how to move between them. Then know that you can put these anywhere up and down the neck, and across the neck. and you have immediately the I, IV, and V chord in every key, in any key you want. An afternoon's work and such a gain.

Second thing is, learn to "read" guitar chords. I have been cheating chords off the guitar player for years, at least to establish what key we are in so that I can proceed as above.

With those two thing you are truly off to the races, and all the rest can be learned along the way, and your ear can develop along the way. In the meantime you will seem to be easily managing most everything.

[Van-van]

Tim Connell taught me a comp to memorize every chord in about a week. I’m still nailing it in but it’s as easy as a scale. Shoot him an email.

[Bill McCall]

You can memorize a series of chord names and shapes, or you can learn to build a chord. I think the latter choice is easier and more powerful.

If you know the note names across the strings for the first 7 frets, you should be able to easily learn to build triads, ie, chords.

224 is a chord shape with the root note (chord name) in the bass. A Major
233 is a chord shape with the root on the D string or 3rd in the bass (G string) F major.
245 is a chord shape with the root on the A string, or 5th in the bass. (G string) D major

Memorize the root identification, it makes finding the chord easy. By the way, this idea works on the DAE strings in the same manner.

That should be a good start and should show you the way to minor chords and dom7 (raise the 5th).
These are not bluegrass chop chords but they’ll work there too. They are much more flexible.

Good luck and have fun.

[mbruno]

There's lots of ways to handle this but IMO the best thing to do here is focus on the moveable chords. In a jam session with a good number of players, open chords aren't the greatest IMO - there are certainly exceptions to that, but generally I prefer using a closed position chord where there are no open strings.

In the closed position, chords are also movable - meaning you can learn one "shape" and be able to play many chords. All you need to do then is know where the root is and you can play virtually any chord using that position. For example the A chord played 2 2 4 5 - the note on the G string is the root. With that in mind, you can make that shape anywhere and the chord you play will always be the note you're playing on the G string. The D chord played 2 4 5 x (I'm leaving the e out, though you could play the 2nd or 5th fret if you wanted) - the root in that chord is the 5th fret on the A string (the D note).

I would suggest starting small - learn the 1 4 5 in G, A, C, and D. Those are fairly common keys for bluegrass jams and should take you most of the way.

If it helps, I have a few Chord Charts on my site that show about 16 ways to play the 1 4 and 5 chords in G, D, and A keys. https://mattcbruno.com/chord-library/. I wouldn't recommend trying to learn those 16 chord positions at once though - start with one or two chord shapes and positions per key. Learn a few songs that use those chords (here's a few https://mattcbruno.com/bluegrass-jam-charts-and-lyrics/) and then try learning those same songs in a different position.

If you have questions, let me know

[j. condino]

I learned more in a week from Niles Hokkanen's little yellow mandolin chord book than probably any other resource over the last 25 years. It used to be so small it fit in the case but there is a larger one available now for around $10:

https://www.elderly.com/products/nil...ow-to-use-them

[maxr]

Thanks all for the advice, folks - think I'll start with looking at some of the recommended websites and ordering Niles Hokkanen's mandolin chord book (which will take 3-4 weeks USA>UK). I agree with CarlM & co. that playing with other people may help more, but I've occasionally bought a book that caused the lightbulb to come on with an audible YESSS! Niles' book seems to do that for some people, and at $10+ it won't break that bank. Max

[Simon DS]

Go through each note in the scale (higher up on the fretboard).


Using G major scale as an example.
Each root note has a chord that it is (major, minor, dim)...GBD makes G major. -I chord
Each root note can make a chord that the note is in.........GEC makes C major -IV chord
Each root note plus it’s sixth makes another chord...........GBE makes E minor, ie. the relative minor of G major -VI chord

Once you see how that works on the fretboard then your harmonising options open up.
For example, find a G note. Now where is it’s sixth note?

[Zach Wilson]

Second thing is, learn to "read" guitar chords. I have been cheating chords off the guitar player for years, at least to establish what key we are in so that I can proceed as above.

With those two thing you are truly off to the races, and all the rest can be learned along the way, and your ear can develop along the way. In the meantime you will seem to be easily managing most everything.

This is such great advice. I'd like to add that training your ear isn't only for playing melody/lead but also for hearing chord patterns and learning how to be a supporting musician to the lead (vocal or instrument). Ive found that playing along with others, listening to a lot of music (especially styles I want to play Mandolin on), and watching other musicians has been more helpful for learning how to backup/support musician then any book has ever taught me.