Can anyone recommend a builder to me?

[Chris Marsh]

Interesting.

[Jim Garber]

The problem for me is that I don't want an F5, but rather an F4.
A real F4-style -- with a 12-fret neck and bridge back on the body where it belongs.
But with the modern improvements of radiused fingerboard and larger frets.

What ever happened to Gail Hester? She built some beautiful F4s IIRC. The link to the eye candy page goes nowhere and a search yields nothing.

I do know what you mean by 12 fret neck and bridge back on the body. That was exactly what I wanted and lucked out with my Brentrup A4C: made like the old Gibson ovals but with a modern touch. Not a hybrid like many of the modern ovals out there.

I would consider John Hamlett or Will Kimble as possibilities. I am sure there are others as well.

[Chris Marsh]

What ever happened to Gail Hester? She built some beautiful F4s IIRC. The link to the eye candy page goes nowhere and a search yields nothing.

I do know what you mean by 12 fret neck and bridge back on the body. That was exactly what I wanted and lucked out with my Brentrup A4C: made like the old Gibson ovals but with a modern touch. Not a hybrid like many of the modern ovals out there.

I would consider John Hamlett or Will Kimble as possibilities. I am sure there are others as well.

Yes, you know what I mean. I think people forget that for a decade the (two point) F4 was the flagship model of the greatest mandolin company in the world.

[devildog]

I seem to remember reading that Chris Thile had the fretboard replaced on his Loar. I agree that preservation is important but so is playability. I guess if he kept the old keyboard it could be returned to “stock” but so could you. Tuners wear out etc.

[Jim Garber]

There was a point in the Loar era at Gibson when somehow the fretting template was messed up. I had a 24 F4 where the upper frets were off enough to notice. Not talking about the stratosphere ones but even below 12. My luthier in Brooklyn back then showed me how off they were. That is part of the reason I believe that Chris had a new fretboard made and I do believe he did keep the old one.

[HoGo]

There was a point in the Loar era at Gibson when somehow the fretting template was messed up. I had a 24 F4 where the upper frets were off enough to notice. Not talking about the stratosphere ones but even below 12. My luthier in Brooklyn back then showed me how off they were. That is part of the reason I believe that Chris had a new fretboard made and I do believe he did keep the old one.

The problem with the old boards is also that they didn't use the same scale length as we use today and it is hard to determine their "ideal scale" as even the nut end may be cut imprecisely when compared to modern standard adn some folks say that thay used the same gang saw as for banjos, just strated at different fret which would put the scale length at arbitrary number. They probably used the rule of 18 and lots or rounding error. I've measured few old Gibson boards and compared them to measurements of banjo boards (someone posted here on cafe few years back) and there are some similarities in pattern of the errors when plotted in excel.
Some folks say that they reassembled the gangsaw with some spacers in wrong positions after resharpening but that would completely reverse some fret distances which is certainly not the case.

[Jim Garber]

Thanks, Adrian. I knew you had more clues as to what was going on back then.

[Jeff Mando]

Very interesting stuff!

[Jim Garber]

I guess my question is why there was such a big change in those years but not in the teens—if that is indeed the case. I don’t recall any very obvious problems with intonations before the Loar era. And why did Lloyd not notice this?

[HoGo]

I guess my question is why there was such a big change in those years but not in the teens—if that is indeed the case. I don’t recall any very obvious problems with intonations before the Loar era. And why did Lloyd not notice this?

I think there were some big changes coming in few phases in factory equipment from 1900's towards 1920's. other than the obvious changes in model specs and dropping of three pointers when you look at neck dovetail joints on early 1900's mandolins they are clearly cut by hand or at least with crude fixtures and fitted by hand. Later (early teens) you can see the dovetails in body block were cut with three passes of thick sawblade (most likely circular), two angled and one centered that removed majority of wood. Later 1910', the dovetails look like cut with dovetail router and very lkely with quite precise fixture as they vary very little. Everytime the factory upgraded machinery some processes changed.

[Mandoplumb]

Skill is not the requirement for the quality of a mandolin. In reality money is. Always buy the best you can afford for several reasons the main one being you will play a better mandolin more because it plays and sounds better and if you play more you will learn quicker

[Jim Garber]

I just noticed this 1988 Gibson A-4 made by Jim Triggs with transverse bracing for sale at Carters. I know you wanted to commission one and it is not an F-4 but it might be a possibility of a modernized old Gibson sound: https://cartervintage.com/products/gibson-a-4-1989

[Chris Marsh]

Just fyi, when I had my 1914 Gibson F2 refretted, the luthier confirmed that the positions of some of the frets were slightly off, did not line up with his template. So this was a problem before the 1920's.

[gummia]

Andrew Mowry is awesome to work with. Just the nicest guy and his builds are out of this world!

www.mowrystrings.com

[lflngpicker]

I just bought a new Ratliff R-5 from Audey Ratliff in Tennessee. His have gone up in price, but so has everyone else's. His price is still very affordable for a hand-built, one-man shop instrument. Prices are comparable to Northfield mandolins. He files each neck, carves each top and back, individually, with hand tools. Audey finishes each by hand, spraying and sanding in each stage, manually. I am looking forward to adding it to my small group of mandolins, including my Pava Pro A5 and Gibson teens A4. I was missing having an F-style. Anyway, Audey is a great guy to deal with. It is about a year-long process to have one built. I was lucky to find one of two in the country that were in stores. I didn't want to have to wait the year. Just another option, which had been mentioned above.

[Chris Marsh]

The reason I created this thread was because I've contacted mandolin makers but received no response.
Not one or two, but half-a-dozen.
They have websites which have "forms" they direct me to fill out.
So I fill them out, and -- crickets.
Or I send an email to the address on the website. Crickets.
I'll put up with that from plumbers but very few others.
I know I'm not the only person to complain about this.

[lflngpicker]

Call Audey Ratliff directly and he will usually pick right up. I have no stake— here’s his number: (423) 357-4381.

[lflngpicker]

I've been thinking I'd like a custom mandolin built to my specs. Can anyone recommend a luthier that can build me a mandolin for a reasonable price?

Chris, That is one heck of a nice F4!

[Chris Marsh]

Chris, That is one heck of a nice F4!

F2, actually. Pretty much in the same condition as when it left the factory in 1914.

[sunburst]

Well that got me thinking so I went to my web site (admittedly for the first time in many months) to see if it is working properly and it seems to be. My test email came through just fine.

[Charles E.]

Sawchyn mandolins....

https://www.sawchyn.com/index.php/ma...-o-2-mandolins

NFI

[briankwood]

http://luthier.com

David Dart, good friend, very good maker although he is making fewer F-5s these days. Nice website too.

[lklose]

Interesting.

I'm no expert but the idea that you aren't skilled enough to have a good mandolin is going down the wrong rabbit hole (the good rabbit hole is harder to find!). Learning on a really good instrument increases the pleasure threshold in wonderful and unforeseen ways.

That said, I would play as many instruments as you can before ordering from anyone--it will really pay off. Take notes about FB width, neck shape, tone, pickguard status cosmetics and other variables that will affect your experience for as long as you own it. I played everything I could get for about a year and learned a whole lot about what I wanted before I bought my first really good one--and it has paid off. I've had that one for 22+ years and it fits me like a glove. After a recent refret, setup and checkup from Montana Lutherie it's better than ever.

I recently bought another high end mando just because I liked it and because I could and it's exquisite, but the neck shape is different and I can see that I need to take time to learn if that's a barrier. I'm waiting because I've just been diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome and I need to see how that will play out before I ultimately make decisions.

Others probably have better info on the many current makers so I'll leave that one alone.

Larry Klose

2000 Unicorn & Mustang (Taku Shakasta) LF5, 2020 Ellis Traditional, 2003 Manoel Andrade bandolim.

[lklose]

Not mentioned in my earlier post is that my U&M has a very gently radiused fingerboard, nearly flat. I have large hands and it has been a great feature for me--as has the flat board on my bandolim. It is a bench copy of a Loar and also had the smaller, "authentic" frets, including the little ramps in the binding, a common Gibson feature. Those took some time to learn play when I hadn't done so, requiring more precision in fretting to avoid buzzes. I never had it refretted until early this year and it didn't really need it even then. But having played other instruments in the interim, I went for a refret with Jescar frets and I'm glad I did. They feel great, are easier to play and I think they improve tone and volume. I'm with those that believe that the playing system should be the best that modern luthiers can provide, even on a vintage instrument. It's not tiny frets that make a vintage classic great--it's all its other characteristics. If it's good for a Strad, it's good enough for modern players of other vintage instruments as well.

[John Bertotti]

Playing as many as you can is a good idea but not always a possibility. Even harder but more importantly is knowing what you want. Neck shape, nut width, types of frets woods tailpiece tone you are going after etc etc. I only had a chance to handle a few mandolins before I commissioned one from OldWave. But it was enough to know what tone I wanted what neck shape etc. you find a good builder or three and chat with them about what you are after and you’ll most likely get an instrument you will like. I only have two mandolins an old Vega Bowl Back I still swear by and my treasured OldWave oval hole A. Someday I’ll add an F but no rush. Good luck on your journey!