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Thread: Chord Charts and Progressions

  1. #1
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Chord Charts and Progressions

    Hey all - So I recently broke my ankle and have had a LOT of free time on my hands. I figured I'd make the most and write up some reference material and exercises for students etc.

    I started writing up a "Chord Library" with the idea of presenting 16 different chord voicings per chord. To make this a little more useful, I grouped them in to 1 4 5 progressions - so the chart for C Major includes C F and G chords.

    The idea behind this is to help students play chords and songs in multiple positions. I'm not trying to create one of those "1 million ways to play chord" books - but rather a practical reference to help learn chord changes in various positions.

    I'd love feedback on the presentation and content etc.

    https://mattcbruno.com/chord-library/
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  3. #2
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    While your effort is laudable, I don’t find it useful. Firstly, I think focusing on the six standard inversions of each chord, in the context of playing the 1-4-5 changes per key would be more useful. Also, I’m not a fan of 4 note chords broadly, so identifying somewhat difficult to finger positions with no context from the root key is problematic to me. I think beginners would more likely desire the various, easy to finger, chord sets for each key, grouped logically placed together.

    At least that approach is my preference, although I realize it may not be a choice for anyone else.
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Thanks Matt - I'm a relative mandolin beginner, and what I've found so far is that otherwise very good mandolin instructor books tend to have have somewhat illogical and/or scrappy chord chapters. They'll e.g. show you eight 4 string 2 finger chords, four chapters later after 'more bluegrass', 'Irish Tunes', and 'Tremolo solos', they'll show you some two or three forms of moveable 3 and 4 string M, m, 7th chords, four chapters after that they give you a primer on 3 finger moveable jazz chords. Most don't tie this info together anywhere, and most don't show you e.g. how to stop the other string ringing in a useful way when you play a 3 string chord - e.g. 'damp the string marked X' - well yeah dude, but mandolin is double strung, so how, on this particular chord - side of which finger? Thumb? Teeth?

    Some instructor books are good within their specific genre - there's one classic Bluegrass book where the very first chord shown is the 'long' G chop chord (3 2 5 7). It then says something like 'yeah, this is hard, but you'll get used to it'. As it's teaching you a classic Bluegrass sound in a Bluegrass mandolin book, that's fine. What I'm not finding is a method with a really good logical all-purpose mandolin chord section that works 'well enough' right across the board.

    Mandolin chord bibles are everywhere ('24,000 mandolin chords...'), in fact my phone chord app can do it, including all the many unplayable ones What I want is the chords good mandolinists actually play, in common progressions that start with I IV V I, then go through chord substitution exercises and other common progressions, have a section on comping with exercises, and wind up with the foundation for playable chords to fit common jazz progressions. Due to the Homer Simpson memory problem, and life being too short, and mandolin not being the only instrument on the planet, I don't want to e.g. learn all the 'open string 1st position' chords first if a lot of them don't sound too good, so I have to relearn lots again in the other shapes that competent mandolinists actually play. I don't mind spending 5 years learning 5 years of stuff - what I don't want to do (again) is spend 5 years learning 3 years of stuff I want and 2 years of stuff I don't use any more.

    Guitarists appear to have this stuff available, even in coffee table books like the excellent Ralph Denver 'The Guitar Book', which condenses practical guitar chord theory into maybe 40 very readable pages. So far I have yet to see a mandolin book that produces a "Yes!" moment for chords, although I do have two classics in transit to me that might...

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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Thanks Matt! I haven't seen a chord library that presents in that fashion. The first thing I thought was that the way you presented it would be very beneficial for practicing double stops. Thanks for putting this together and hope your ankle heels up! Glad you didn't break your wrist lol...
    Echoing what Maxr says above and not taking anything away from this resource - "Mandolin chord bibles are everywhere ('24,000 mandolin chords...')". This is true. Chord books and resources are great - They have a bunch of chords in them. The thing is - without rhythm chords don't make music. What seems to be missing from the mando world is rhythm resources. Chords and fingering chords is only part of playing rhythm. IMO it's not even half of playing rhythm. I suppose it is harder to present rhythmic ideas on a page than to say "put your fingers here and squeeze". Chord charts are static whereas rhythm brings in time.. Just my .02.. Again, Thanks for the cool resources Matt! Good Luck!

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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    I agree with everything you have written, maxr. For years I played the mandolin only melodically, with some chords already written in the sheet music, and double stops, etc. When I got interested in chords, I ran into all the problems you mention.
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Thanks for the feedback all! Much appreciated.

    For the "how to use these chords" - I did include a few samples of positional playing using 1 4 5 1 chords (it takes a while to write these, so I haven't gotten to all keys yet haha). I thought that might be useful to start. Ideally, I'd like to also write out some sample progressions designed to move you up or down the neck instead of staying in one position. Did you all see the sample progressions too? Were those helpful?

    For the Double Stops - I wrote up a separate lesson on that (https://mattcbruno.com/basic-double-stops/) and I have another lesson I'm working on (Harmonizing the scale) that includes harmonizing with double stops. I haven't finished it yet - but here's a sneak peek at that lesson since you brought up double stops.
    https://mattcbruno.com/harmonizing-scales/ - I'm debating if this is a worthwhile lesson to finish writing out honestly, so please LMK if you find it helpful

    Ky - when you talk about the rhythm side, are you looking for like strumming patterns or something else?

    Maxr - Does this style of writing things out get closer to the "YES" moment you're talkinga bout?

    Jairo - What are your thoughts on the style of what I wrote out? Was it helpful or would another way be better?

    Bill - Sorry it's not working for you. That said, it sounds like you just want a reference of a few (up to six) 3 note chords and some sample progressions on using them. Is that right?

    Thanks all!
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  12. #7
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Matt,

    I know how to play the chords in all the inversions. I was suggesting you to move away from a chart of seemingly random shapes to a logical progression of chords in one position which could be generalized to progressions across more positions. There's no path in your presentation.

    I did not see your chart on page 2 of the C chords, but now that I've looked at it, I find it very awkward. I've never known anyone to play many of these chord shapes. I just don't see the utility of the format along the lines I mentioned above.

    Playing in all positions is very useful, but having a mechanism that allows anyone to determine where to play a sequence of chords on the fingerboard is very useful, and your chart doesn't allow for the generation of a rule to allow that. To me it looks like a chase into rote memorization, a path I don't think is useful.

    Learning how to build the chords on the fly was more useful to me than pages full of seemingly random chord shapes that don't allow for each playability. My $.02.

    Jethro was a fan of 3 note chords and Eldon Shamblin (Bob Wills guitar player) did okay with 4 note chords, so knowing which notes to play is more important than fingering all of the strings.

    Obviously, ymmv.
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    Last edited by Bill McCall; Feb-14-2022 at 5:58pm. Reason: couldn't delete chord chart originally posted as an example of a memorization nightmare
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Hey Bill

    Thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated.

    I was suggesting you to move away from a chart of seemingly random shapes to a logical progression of chords in one position which could be generalized to progressions across more positions. There's no path in your presentation.
    I did this with Page 2 which shows a simple 1 4 5 1 progression. Given that 1 4 5 is probably the most common progression out there (especially in certain genres) I figured this would be a good idea for a start. Since these charts take a good amount of time to make, I didn't want to get too deep in before I got feedback though. I intend to add sample 1 4 5 1 progressions to all the charts along with others like 6 2 5 1 progressions and 1 3 4 etc. If there are other progressions that you think would be a good path, LMK. The more "practical" studies, the better.

    I did not see your chart on page 2 of the C chords, but now that I've looked at it, I find it very awkward. I've never known anyone to play many of these chord shapes
    That surprises me. I use most of these chords in my daily playing (however, there are some I rarely use for sure). Though my goal is to learn every song I know in at least 2 or 3 positions - which requires alternate fingerings etc. Just curious - which sample 1 4 5 1's do you not use? Just reference the measure if that's easier.


    Jethro was a fan of 3 note chords and Eldon Shamblin (Bob Wills guitar player) did okay with 4 note chords, so knowing which notes to play is more important than fingering all of the strings.
    No argument that you can do fine with using only part of the instrument - but not learning all the options limits your playing IMO. I use 3 note chords a lot too I think it's important to learn the 4 note chords too - especially for certain chords (like diminished, 9th, major 7ths etc). The chart you posted for example has a lot of 4 note chords (major 7ths and etc). You can always omit a note and get the point across - but that's not always ideal. Similarly, when playing a chord melody style, there's a huge benefit to knowing 4 note chords. While you don't always need to play the 4 note chords, I think a reference / lesson doc that doesn't address those chords would be lacking.

    Learning how to build the chords on the fly was more useful to me than pages full of seemingly random chord shapes that don't allow for each playability
    Very true - but that's a whole different lesson.

    To me it looks like a chase into rote memorization, a path I don't think is useful.
    Maybe, but after teaching for almost 30 years, I've realized that everyone learns differently. Some memorize, some need to physically do it, some need to write it out, some need to know the theory behind it etc. To each their own. I started playing music with the memorization route personally. I'd find a song I liked but didn't know how to make the chords, find the chord by searching for it online or in a book depending on the year (and repeating that for all chords I didn't know), I'd memorize those specific chords and the specific progression in a specific way and just play that for hours. Eventually I wouldn't need the reference anymore and those chords became part of my vocab. I vividly remember doing this for Russian Lullaby and Eleanor Rigby haha - oh the joys of trying new things For what it's worth, now when I learn a song (especially a complex one) I use a variety of methods to memorize the song - writing out the chords by hand is still one for some tunes - but also writing out the arpeggios, the melody as it relates to the chord, figuring out how to play the chords and melody in multiple positions etc.

    Thanks for the feedback Bill!
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Quote Originally Posted by mbruno View Post
    For the Double Stops - I wrote up a separate lesson on that (https://mattcbruno.com/basic-double-stops/) and I have another lesson I'm working on (Harmonizing the scale) that includes harmonizing with double stops. I haven't finished it yet - but here's a sneak peek at that lesson since you brought up double stops.
    https://mattcbruno.com/harmonizing-scales/ - I'm debating if this is a worthwhile lesson to finish writing out honestly, so please LMK if you find it helpful
    I think it would be helpful. I have never met a free resource that I didn't like


    Ky - when you talk about the rhythm side, are you looking for like strumming patterns or something else?
    Sure. Strumming patterns, comping ideas, etc.. including but not limited the good ole "chop on 2 and 4" strategy..

    My point wasn't that you're materials were lacking or that you need to do anything. Just that, in general, there are many many more resources about the fretting/fingering hand than the picking strumming/hand. Even here in cafe threads people can write pages and pages about chords, chords inversions, chord substitutions, harmonization, modes etc.. - essentially where to put your fretting hand. There are not enough resources about the picking hand. There are not enough resources about putting things together with both hands to achieve the goal of making music. Yet interestingly, many agree that the picking strumming hand is the most important and deserves a great deal of focus. Sam's "All about rhythm mandolin" is one of the only rhythm resources I've seen.
    ..

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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    As per Bill McC's "laudable-vs-useful" comment...

    I suspect that it's most useful for intermediate and higher players, maybe the majority posting here, rather than as a learning tool for the typical student. Yes, it's great for them to know that so many possibilities exist (I so commented recently on a "converting guitarist" thread) but almost overwhelming to learn before one actually has use or need for them. Or... maybe I'm short-changing your typical student?

    That said, excuse me while I go thru the inversions w/ instrument in hand!
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Sorry Matt, I've got snowed under with a bunch of boring non musicial legalistic BS I have to sort out, so I'll get back to your question soon as I've kicked that out the door... Max

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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Pickloser has an excellent guide to doublestops at https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/e...to-Doublestops.
    Why reinvent the wheel?

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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Matt, I think you’re doing a great job with your site. Thanks for putting in the effort. It may be very helpful to someone. Resources for mandolinists really continue to proliferate, which I think is a good thing. You do you
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Quote Originally Posted by EdHanrahan View Post
    As per Bill McC's "laudable-vs-useful" comment...

    I suspect that it's most useful for intermediate and higher players, maybe the majority posting here, rather than as a learning tool for the typical student. Yes, it's great for them to know that so many possibilities exist (I so commented recently on a "converting guitarist" thread) but almost overwhelming to learn before one actually has use or need for them. Or... maybe I'm short-changing your typical student?

    That said, excuse me while I go thru the inversions w/ instrument in hand!
    My students typically range widely - some are advanced players, others just got a mandolin for the first time. From their feedback, it seems the beginners are finding these charts more useful than the advanced folks. The advanced folks generally already know how to play the basic chords in multiple positions - so less useful.

    That said, I started thinking about the next round of things to chart out and I think I have a good idea based on the feedback from students and here.

    Hope the charts help somewhat
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    More than 20 years ago I would get together with a group of other guitarists - initially playing blues and Americana-type music, and would bring out the mandolin to play Levon-style so we weren't all playing just guitars. Somehow we got the swing music bug and that opened up a whole world of chords, cadences and voicings that were foreign to me, not I-IV-V progressions. Pre-JazzMando (thanks, Ted E), I rounded up 20 or so standards that we were hacking away at and figured out mainly three note movable voicings that would carry me trough these tunes in at least two different ways. My internal rules were that a cadence (think ii-V-I) would have a minimum of finger movement between each voicing. I wrote the chord forms out for these tunes & played through them over & over. I had to figure out what notes would convey the essence of a chord in a setting. Within a couple of years I no longer needed to write out the chord fingerings because I have a pretty good idea of how to handle the cadences in new tunes, and it opened the way for figuring out lead lines, playing chord-melody mandolin and using double stops in tunes.

    I found that going thru that exercise was the most important thing I have ever done to improve my knowledge of music and my mandolin playing in general. It obviously is not the path for fluency in bluegrass, but I have taught a few folks the rudiments of swing by helping them figure out chord voicings for tunes.

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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    We all learn differently, whether novice or recording pro. I haven’t found tables of chord fingerings terribly helpful but people I’ve played and hung with like them a lot so I’m content that that’s useful. The progressions, though, I can get excited about. Those etudes can help me break out of the rut of habitual, easy voicings, probably an odd remark from one with as little mandolin experience as I have. Sixteen flavors per chord seems a lot but, again, I’m not yet a half year into this pursuit. Maybe break it into smaller bites? In any event, I’m interested.
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    It’s going to be an excellent resource. I have no criticism to add that isn’t just repeating what someone else said (and they’ve all been great)
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Well done on the charts Matt, really good!

    I must say that the structure does seem a bit French (in a good way. )
    It’s like you’ve put down a piece of paper, some crayons and an object to been viewed with some basic rules. I like this sense of liberty within a defined structure.

    The 1,4,5 implies a major scale and provides for a cohesive exercise, and you’ve allowed people who know the major scale over the neck to experiment and make the connections themselves.

    Another thing I find interesting is that people tend to play in certains ways but once they’re comfortable they become resistant to change, even when relatively minor changes at an academic level reap real benefits.

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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Someone said once that the best way to learn is to teach. This seems to be Matt's approach and it is good.

    Now my first impression is that it seems to be concentrated more on using a computer's music notation program than in using a mandolin.

    Many other fine teachers have said that 'you have to work it out for yourself', and for good reason. Personally, I sit somewhere in between. I was going to write out exactly what Matt has done here. Ha, ha. But it is only an academic exercise on paper. I've still got to work out the fingerings needed to get the voicings that I want. And then there is the technical challenge of making quick changes in playing the rhythm ...
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Very good point Doug, thanks.
    Matt’s charts can be used as a teacher’s resource.
    Very generous offer Matt, many thanks!

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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Yeah - these particular charts are more to be used as a reference than a straight "study" - though I did include some easy 1 4 5 changes that I thought could be helpful. I played through all these exercises before posting to make sure the references were / are viable - but given the amount of charts I've written up recently, I may have missed a few so there may be some "impossible" phrases haha. LMK if you come across any so I can review / correct. The software makes writing easier - but leaves some room for oversight haha.

    Most of this is stuff I've created for students of mine to use as a reference and are not a standalone "mandolin course" (at least not yet). With that in mind, some charts may be missing "context" that is best provided by a teacher or coach (like "how / why would I want to play XYZ etc"). If anyone has any questions on any chart on my site - please just message me. I love talking about mandolin stuff and charts etc.

    For the "You have to work it out for yourself" idea (which I assume is about the tabs), I go back and forth on my love / hate for tabs. On the one hand, I think learning notation is super important for students for a variety of reasons and having tabs on a chart make it hard to learn notation (most eyes draw to the tabs). On the other hand, as a teacher (especially a remote one these days), having something that says "I want you to specifically play this phrase using these frets" is really helpful toward building specific skills.

    To each their own - but I'm glad you all like them. I have a few more I'm planning to post up. If you can think of any charts / explanations that would be useful for you, please LMK - I have another 2 to 3 weeks of sitting on my butt waiting for my leg to heal haha.
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    Default Re: Chord Charts and Progressions

    Sorry to hear about the injury Matt. As for music teaching, there are others that have done this stuff and some 'old timers' like me have seen many. Scott Sharp and his mandolin toolbox books and videos come to mind.

    Currently I am learning some 'very interesting' chords for Irish music on guitar. (Standard tuning). By this I mean that there are some very clever chords that avoid thirds and double up on the octaves and also mute some strings so that the sound is not clashing with the melody.

    It seems 'crazy hard' to give some of these chords names. For example an A minor drone note open 5th string, muting the 6th but doubling the A note with the 4th string and adding a note on the 9th (and 10th) fret and muting the first string. e.g. X 0 7 9 X X

    However in hearing this and in learning by ear it is fairly simple.

    The 'chord' makes perfect sense in context, but seeing the A minor above a staff would probably not lead to this 'thinking outside the box' solution.
    Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile

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