Determining a fair sale price

[Mainer73]

I have an F model that is a "name brand" instrument. It currently has a street price of about $1100 new. This one is 3 years old and other than some honest playing wear, is in excellent condition and has an upgraded bridge (custom tuned Cumberland Acoustic). I'm trying to determine what a fair price for both seller and buyer would be. I haven't found any kind of formula or such kicking around. Thanks in advance.

[pheffernan]

I have an F model that is a "name brand" instrument. It currently has a street price of about $1100 new. This one is 3 years old and other than some honest playing wear, is in excellent condition and has an upgraded bridge (custom tuned Cumberland Acoustic). I'm trying to determine what a fair price for both seller and buyer would be. I haven't found any kind of formula or such kicking around. Thanks in advance.

70% +/- of new replacement value has always been my figure, though used everything seems to be trading at higher prices since the pandemic.

[poul hansen]

There is no such thing as a "fair" price. You set a price you are happy with and if someone buys it, he must be happy too. Voilá.

Prices in our part of the world are determined by "supply and demand".

[Mainer73]

70% +/- of new replacement value has always been my figure, though used everything seems to be trading at higher prices since the pandemic.

Thanks! That's what my gut was telling me but consensus is good.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no such thing as a "fair" price. You set a price you are happy with and if someone buys it, he must be happy too. Voilá.

Prices in our part of the world are determined by "supply and demand".

Fair point!

[sblock]

I've always wondered what's meant by the phrase "honest play wear." Is there some form of "dishonest play wear" to contrast it with? I suppose one could argue that deliberately distressing a new instrument, like the Ricky Scaggs distressed Master Model F5 from Gibson, might constitute a form of dishonest play wear. But not really, since the model is honestly advertised as being distressed, and not as some vintage instrument.

Wear is wear. Scratches, abrasions, chips, and dings are scratches, abrasions, chips, and dings.

...and puffery is puffery! Don't you agree?

[Mainer73]

I've always wondered what's meant by the phrase "honest play wear." Is there some form of "dishonest play wear" to contrast it with? I suppose one could argue that deliberately distressing a new instrument, like the Ricky Scaggs distressed Master Model F5 from Gibson, might constitute a form of dishonest play wear. But not really, since the model is honestly advertised as being distressed, and not as some vintage instrument.

Wear is wear. Scratches, abrasions, chips, and dings are scratches, abrasions, chips, and dings.

...and puffery is puffery! Don't you agree?

Well put! I guess I was thinking of common descriptive terms that seem to convey something. A little fret wear, a couple of rub spots, a ding or two in the body is normal after a few years. It's part of an instrument's maturation and character building really. I guess the person who would give it a good home would understand what that means. But yes, it IS funny how we use certain terms to try and convey something universal. This particular mandolin would be a coveted monster if it had a few years of Ricky Skaggs' "honest playing wear" 🤣

[Marcus CA]

70% +/- of new replacement value has always been my figure, though used everything seems to be trading at higher prices since the pandemic.

I agree. I’d say that asking, and possibly selling, prices are more like 75-80% these days. You might check the Café Classifieds and Reverb to see how many other similar mandos are on the market and what their asking prices are.

[Pittsburgh Bill]

I have an F model that is a "name brand" instrument. It currently has a street price of about $1100 new. This one is 3 years old and other than some honest playing wear, is in excellent condition and has an upgraded bridge (custom tuned Cumberland Acoustic). I'm trying to determine what a fair price for both seller and buyer would be. I haven't found any kind of formula or such kicking around. Thanks in advance.

Not always easy. I strive to sell an instrument that I no longer use with a honest description and a fair price. Deciding this can take in many factors to ponder. i.e. I have an Ibenez bowl back that I bought out of curiosity from the Cafe classifieds for approximately $275 that I may get around to listing for resale. Reasons I have not listed it is I do not know how to describe it. It seems to play well but I do not like the flat fret board. The action and intonation is good. As per tone I have little experience with bowl backs to claim it to have good tone, OK tone or poor tone. And just because I don't like wrapping my arm around the body or the flat fret board, I have no idea how someone else may like it. So, I ask my self," should I resell it for what I paid for it or sell it for substantially less because I don't care for it and not wanting to disappoint a buyer?".
Typically on a sale that I am more familiar I would use as previously suggested 70% of new cost to arrive at a resale price. But, not all resales are that easy. In good conscience I could not use the 70% rule for an instrument that I think I overpaid for or 70% for a really nice instrument that has gone up in value.
Arrive at what you think is fair and if you get a lot of buyers you will know you could have sold it for more and no takers relist it at a lower price.

[Mitch Stein]

There is no such thing as a "fair" price. You set a price you are happy with and if someone buys it, he must be happy too. Voilá.

Fair point!

He made a point he was happy with. You must have been happy with it too

[JeffD]

I'm trying to determine what a fair price for both seller and buyer would be.

I personally think this is a pointless activity. The price will be negotiated between you and the buyer, with you claiming your price is fair (or the fair price) and the buyer claiming that the offer is, really, the fair price. In the end "fair price" doesn't hold much wait.

I think, going in, one has to figure out the number that matters, number below which you are not willing sell it. (And of course keep it to yourself. ) How far above that number your buyer is willing to offer is the magic of negotiating (during which both sides will talk about street value, fair value, collectors value, other offers for similar instruments, "what-they-go-for" value, all kinds of notions of objective value, with the hopes the other person is persuaded.)

[tjmangum]

As a buyer, as I've gotten older, I haggle less. If the price is within what I feel is realistic, I just buy it. As a seller, I usually start with a bit higher than what I'll accept, so the buyer can negotiate down some. If you come across as fair and reasonable I will bend some. If you come across as a shark, know it all, or act condesending then chances are slim we'll make a deal.

[EdHanrahan]

... or (not) 70% for a really nice instrument that has gone up in value.

Good point. I think most here are quietly assuming an instrument in the "intermediate past" range, maybe 4 to 10 years old, 15 at most. Get much older than that, and inflation distorts the calculations.

Case in point: In '90, I bought an 18 y/o Martin D-35 for $650; it had sold for around $450 when new, and should have sold for ~$950 in '90, except that it had assorted cosmetic dings AND a cracked back brace. I almost passed except that my wife, bless her, loved the tone and ... ya know ... I spent $650. Another $65 at Mandolin Brothers fixed the back brace and -surprise to me!- made the surface dings largely disappear. (Per Leroy Aiello, the buffing wheel generates heat, softens the surface, expands the wood a bit and, voila, it's pretty flat!) Today it would go for $2K or so if perfect, so I suspect that ~$1,600 would be a fair price. Not bad for a $450 guitar... at 50 years old!

BTW: In spite of Martin's reputation for the early '70s, its intonation is perfect and its sound -again, surprise to me- gets the BG folks drooling. Yeah, gonna keep it!

[MikeEdgerton]

In past years you could see what instruments were selling for by going to eBay, doing and advanced search and looking at the sold prices. That number will be green. If any number of that brand and model had sold you could see what they had been selling for. It's not a bad place to start. Don't pay any attention to what things are listed for on that site or on Reverb. If for example you were looking at all Kentucky mandolins you would see this.

[J.C. Bryant]

It is all a very subjective thing, to me, aet least. I look on Ebay, Reverb, and here on the Cafe. I see if they or open to bids or is it a fixed price. I know what the fees/costs are and what the shipping is and I mix all that up with how much I want to sell it or buy it. Sometimes you just want to sell it and move on and some times you say to your self, "I want this much or I am willing to keep it." Also, more and more I come up with what I think is a good and fair price and set it, I don't open it to bids, I just set a price, fully conscious of how much I am going to end up with after the "dust settles". I have found on Ebay and Reverb, that after the deal is done feels paid shippoing done, I end up with about 87% of what I sell it for. After the deal, I try real hard to not to fall into second guessing. We all like to buy low and sell high. The deal is done and I try to move on.

[Eric Platt]

As others have pointed out, these days there is a lot more wiggle room for prices. Depending on how much wear, the 70 percent was a good suggestion. Edge bumps vs pick/fingernail wear can have an influence.

It's all a case of supply and demand. Definitely check Reverb and eBay for selling prices. IMO they are a better guideline than the old Orion Blue Book.

[Charlie Bernstein]

If it's still in good shape, you might get about two-thirds of what you paid.

If you put the make and model in the search field at Reverb.com, it'll tell you what it (or something comparable) is getting today.

[DPrager]

Many years ago when purchasing a small business, my lawyer handling the deal said regarding pricing: Not a penny less then he'll take or a nickel more than you want to spend.

I'm sorry, it stuck with me for many years

[rcc56]

Many years ago [pre internet], I was having a conversation with Fletcher Bright, who was a modestly well known fiddler who ran a good sized, successful real estate business.
We were discussing an instrument that I had put on the market and sold in only a few days.
I asked him: "Did I sell it too cheap?"
His response was: "Maybe you sold it for just the right price."

[Jeff Mando]

Many ways to look at this, as I see it. Everybody likes to sell for top dollar. Everybody likes to buy at a bargain price. Like previously stated, being fair would be something in between, IMHO.

I've purchased many instruments at "retail" and once in a while I get a "deal" on something. If I got a deal, then I can't lose. If I paid retail, I still can't lose -- unless I bought for resale. In other words, if you keep 'em it doesn't matter. A good friend of mine is a big-time art collector who told me he doesn't mind "overpaying" because he never sells anything -- and often paying full price eliminated his "competition". Most of us can't afford to think that way.

Most people want to sell for top dollar, just like a vintage instrument store, when in fact, the individual has no overhead whereas the store does. Common sense would say the individual can sell for less and still be fine, taking into account age, wear, and the "fun" the instrument has already brought you.

I guess the simple answer is check what stuff has recently sold for as comparison -- NOT what people are asking. Sometimes this is difficult to determine. Checking eBay's completed items will give you the "real" number -- usually a lot less than the big retailers ask.....but that is just one source.

On a related note, talking about shortages of supply and things going for much more than retail, my sister and I recently inherited Mom's house and put it on the market. Of course, we heard of the so-called housing shortage and things causing a bidding war and selling for way over the asking price. Well, it may have been our local market, this house was certainly nice enough, but when it came down to it, we had only two offers, both under our asking price. The better offer fell through and we ended up taking the lower one -- and felt lucky to get it. The point being don't count on an increased market.

OTOH, you just need one interested party! Good luck.

[poul hansen]

Everybody assumes that a seller want "top dollar" for his items but that doesn't have to be the case. I often sell to a low price, just to be sure of a fast deal or to make room for another buy or to let the buyer profit from my own good deal when I bought the item. Some items I just want to get rid of but they are too good to discard, so I set a low price or even give them away.

It IS possible to set a price which doesn't give you maximum profit but what you consider a reasonable/adequate profit.

[jim simpson]

A friend and former band mate has had me sell a number of guitars for him. In setting the price, I always determine what is the minimum the seller needs to get minus my fee. He always had nice guitars and would set a low reasonable amount, stating that he gigged with them and they made him money so he didn't need to get "retail".
I never failed to sell one for him and it was usually more than his minimum.