Stiff tuners on a newer Collings mandolin

[Jmccrory]

I have acquired an almost new Collings MT2. A few of the tuners are difficult to turn, the rest of them turn like butter. I have oiled them, turned them, and still on one of them I could barely tune. I loosened it, unscrewed the gear, screwed it tight again, and still it is difficult to turn. I am using just regular D'Addario strings, so no overburdening the posts

Any suggestions as to what is the problem and what I can do?

Jeff

[Fretbear]

I would carefully remove them from the peghead entirely and then see how they perform. That will let you know whether the issue lays with the tuners themselves (a mechanical issue) or whether the stiffness is a result of binding in the Peghead/Ferrules. If it is a binding in the peghead issue, that can usually be dealt with fairly easily. Also the force you are having to use to turn them with is likely grinding (wearing) against something that it shouldn't be. You can't remedy an issue until you know exactly what is causing it.

[Caleb]

I had the same issue with my MT because Collings installed Stew-Mac Golden Age tuners on it which were/are absolute junk. They gave me another set that were junk as well. Then they gave me some Gotohs. Problem solved.

[Mojo]

I had the same issue with my MT because Collings installed Stew-Mac Golden Age tuners on it which were/are absolute junk. They gave me another set that were junk as well. Then they gave me some Gotohs. Problem solved.

Recent MT/MT2 are fitted with Gotohs as standard issue, no idea what year they made the change though.

[Jill McAuley]

I had a similar issue with the stock Golden Age tuners on the MT-O I used to own. Had my luthier swap them out for Rubners and it was like night and day.

[Pittsburgh Bill]

Recent MT/MT2 are fitted with Gotohs as standard issue, no idea what year they made the change though.

Another here had the same issue with a MT. Call Collings and be prepared to provide them with your serial #. If your mandolin was built during the time expanse where this was an issue with their builds you will be sent instructions on acquiring new tuners at no cost.

[Caleb]

Another here had the same issue with a MT. Call Collings and be prepared to provide them with your serial #. If your mandolin was built during the time expanse where this was an issue with their builds you will be sent instructions on acquiring new tuners at no cost.

Yes, call Collings. I was quick to speak poorly of Stew Mac's Golden Age tuners, but I should have sang the praises of Collings more at the same time. They were more than helpful in getting my issue solved and sent me not one but two sets of tuners till all was made right. Impeccable customer service. (I just don't understand what they were doing putting such lousy tuners on their otherwise wonderful instruments in the first place. Maybe once upon a time the SMGA tuners were good and they just got a bad batch?)

[Bob Buckingham]

Golden Age tuners are junk. Waverly tuners are not what they once were. Both are becoming more disappointing.

[Mojo]

Golden Age tuners are junk. Waverly tuners are not what they once were. Both are becoming more disappointing.

How does junk become MORE disappointing?

Perhaps a question for Fred G. Sanford….

[Richard500]

Once, if you wanted optimal performance from a car engine, you’d have it taken apart and ‘blueprinted’, that is remachined and adjusted to better than standard production tolerances. As disappointing as it may be, for such simple machines as tuners, perhaps repair people should add tuner blueprinting to the list of services; providing that the basic designs don’t have flaws, and can be made to work. I can’t imagine that builders, small or large would care to invest any time on either incoming parts inspection or adjustment and just prefer to use what’s on the market right out of the box. And, if what’s on the market is mostly sloppy, even at absurd prices, then…

[mandroid]

I got a 3rd hand Mix A5 the slight error the builder made in peg head drilling , (it happens)
and then having a past owner force fitting a set of Waverly tuners on,
damaged the tuners..

I reverted back to lower cost tuners more tolerant of the slight error, & It has been fine
even better after a re-fret, including a fingerboard leveling,..

so anecdote about headstock holes vs tuning machines needing wearing in
something you could do when there is no string on it.. with the peg head winder.

[Caleb]

I can’t imagine that builders, small or large would care to invest any time on either incoming parts inspection or adjustment and just prefer to use what’s on the market right out of the box. And, if what’s on the market is mostly sloppy, even at absurd prices, then…

On one hand I understand this view, but on the other it seems to me that the burden is fully on the builder to make sure all parts are good ones, especially when they are charging the prices these kinds of instruments demand. In my case, the stiffness and poor functioning of the tuners on my MT should have been caught upon the first stringing. If not there then final inspections should have caught it.

Tuning and ease of use of tuning machines are about as basic as it gets with a stringed instrument. As an example, a few years ago Larrivee was using cheap tuners on many of their guitars. An acquaintance of mine bought one and it wouldn’t hold tune. His conclusion was that Larrivee guitars are junk. This is not even close to being the truth, but it only shows how something so basic as tuners can make or break the entire experience.

[Mojo]

In my case, the stiffness and poor functioning of the tuners on my MT should have been caught upon the first stringing. If not there then final inspections should have caught it.

You are making the assumption that the tuners worked poorly from hour zero, which is quite often not the case: Manufactured parts can work fine initially and then malfunction or deteriorate either slowly or quite rapidly with or even without use, over time. Parts machined out of spec or manufactured from materials out of spec can work well during initial inspection and use, only to have the flaws become apparent not long after.

Considering the high tension placed on tuners, I don’t find it unreasonable to suspect that problems might only arise after they’d been under tension for a while. Collings, to my knowledge, isn’t in the habit of turning out flawed products, in fact they seem more focused on consistent high quality than most companies. Not saying it’s impossible they let obviously bad tuners slip through their QC, but it seems highly unlikely.

[MikeEdgerton]

His assumption is most likely correct as Collings went to great trouble to get Stewmac to replace them even on second hand mandolins. You have to assume Collings realized they had an issue on instruments that had already left the plant. This isn't new, it's been discussed here for a few years and as Collings isn't currently manufacturing mandolins I don't know if that agreement still stands or not.

[Mojo]

His assumption is most likely correct as Collings went to great trouble to get Stewmac to replace them even on second hand mandolins. You have to assume Collings realized they had an issue on instruments that had already left the plant.

The fact that Collings went to great lengths to ensure customer satisfaction is in no way indicative that Collings knows or thinks they are responsible for letting faulty tuners THAT COULD HAVE BE RECOGNIZED AS SUCH slip through their QC process. Most likely scenario is that they got a bad tuners from Stew Mac and the problems were not detectable until the tuners had some time under tension and/or use. This sort of scenario plays out all the time in various industries, including with musical instrument makers, large and small, any place that doesn’t make 100% of their own parts.

[Russ Jordan]

and as Collings isn't currently manufacturing mandolins I don't know if that agreement still stands or not.

Mike,
Are you sure about that?

[MikeEdgerton]

Mike,
Are you sure about that?

Russ, Have you heard that they have restarted the mandolin production? I haven't heard that they had.

[Russ Jordan]

Russ, Have you heard that they have restarted the mandolin production? I haven't heard that they had.

I knew Collings had cut back on production, but never heard that they completely stopped building mandolins. I knew Weber stopped…….

[MikeEdgerton]

Maybe they just slowed way down. I can't find the message thread I'm looking for that discussed it.

[Mandolin Cafe]

Collings isn't currently manufacturing mandolins I don't know if that agreement still stands or not.

I don't believe this is accurate. When and where was it announced they had ceased? I've never heard this and I was just talking with one of their employees this week. They're still delivering new mandolins to dealers.

[MikeEdgerton]

I stand corrected. That's probably why I couldn't find it. I did find the message about the cases.

[Bob Buckingham]

How does junk become MORE disappointing?

Perhaps a question for Fred G. Sanford….

They get more disappointing when they fail at being what they are advertised to be, in this case, the best. I have had issues with Waverly tuners that I have not had with other brands like Grover, Gotoh, and Schaller.